8361A’s - First Impressions

[srrxr71]

The other option is 2x w371. You might still end up getting 1 x 7380 to fill in that bottom octave.

Worst gateway drug on earth. Opium has nothing on this stuff.

 

[Pearljam5000]

The more I listen to these, the more I get an appreciation for what Genelec has done here. Just subjective opinion (apologies) but with GLM these things are truly great. The bass is the best I’ve heard in this room, and that goes back a long way and several systems, subs and all. My LFX is -3dB @ 26 hz. I can light up the limiters on occasion though…subs might be on order.

What other speakers you compared it to?

 

[RobL]

The other option is 2x w371. You might still end up getting 1 x 7380 to fill in that bottom octave.

Worst gateway drug on earth. Opium has nothing on this stuff.

W371’s would be my dream system…more than I want to spend though

What other speakers you compared it to?

Well, I’ve lived in this house since 1990 so I’ve had many different systems here…several different JBL’s (4311, 6328P, 705P), Paradigm (Monitor 9), Polk (LSIM 705), Genelec 1032A’s…others not worth mentioning
I had a sub with the Monitor 9’s, but no way to measure back then and room correction wasn’t even a thing yet. At the time I thought they were very good… The LSR6328P’s were very good, I had the matching sub for them. Room correction was pretty rudimentary but helped…nothing like what’s available now though. The 705p’s are excellent and have built in PEQ bands but they’re really better in nearfield than farfield and I had no sub with them. The 1032’s were very good but I never got the bass sounding as good as these. I had the LSIM705’s on Anthem ARC which worked well but again, not like these.

 

[YSC]

W371’s would be my dream system…more than I want to spend though


Well, I’ve lived in this house since 1990 so I’ve had many different systems here…several different JBL’s (4311, 6328P, 705P), Paradigm (Monitor 9), Polk (LSIM 705), Genelec 1032A’s…others not worth mentioning
I had a sub with the Monitor 9’s, but no way to measure back then and room correction wasn’t even a thing yet. At the time I thought they were very good… The LSR6328P’s were very good, I had the matching sub for them. Room correction was pretty rudimentary but helped…nothing like what’s available now though. The 705p’s are excellent and have built in PEQ bands but they’re really better in nearfield than farfield and I had no sub with them. The 1032’s were very good but I never got the bass sounding as good as these. I had the LSIM705’s on Anthem ARC which worked well but again, not like these.

I wonders the bass improvement is mainly coming from the GLM taming the room mode greatly, after trying how room mode affect the perception of bass it is really a night and day improvement

 

[srrxr71]

I wonders the bass improvement is mainly coming from the GLM taming the room mode greatly, after trying how room mode affect the perception of bass it is really a night and day improvement

Still it’s not perfect. I found my room modes in the GRADE report and decided to cut with a high Q filter my 60Hz room modes. Bass is tighter but lacking in power.

Sometimes you have to excite the mode to have that bass power. My other 2 modes are 20Hz and 30Hz. I’m not really touching those but letting GLM tame them. Again if you want power you will have to “untame” those.

I tried to add some power around 50Hz and 70Hz to get more power while keeping things tight.

There is a trade off between bass accuracy in the room and bass power. This is a personal trade off.

My solution: 7380. Let’s see how that works. The 7360s also need some position adjustment. Maybe a corner would work. Then I have to figure out where to put the bass trap. One above but the second above that will not fit and will hit the ceiling. So maybe I’ll have to get a custom height for it?

Hopefully by Christmas I’ll be done tweaking completely and enjoying these with eggnog.

 

[srrxr71]

I guess rather than start a new thread I’ll piggyback on this.

First thing. Yes it’s a box in box. No the box is not that cute little full color thing which opens like an origami puzzle and the monitor is suspended in the middle like the 8341 package.

This has to be opened from the top. When you do you will find another brown box which has the monitor lying face down and strap upwards. They warn you to use that strap. You would do well to use it. Not too bad to lift and i’m not in the best of shape either. It’s the smudges you will leave on the front to upright it.

Thankfully it fits on the matching stand easily. Almost drops in.

The matching stands for this are FAR better than the matching stands for the 8341. Cable management is much better. The build is ridiculous. The spring loaded height adjustment is such a great touch.

It sounds like my familiar 8341s. I can’t really tell any difference. Besides I had to delete my all old calibrations and redo them for these. I suppose I could have kept them and compared but I don’t see the point.

Now I have found the red light. Very easy to find. I can listen at the midpoint of the volume knob. In fact it’s probably the better bass that lets me enjoy at lower levels. It could be the fact that it’s a weekday evening.

From very brief testing it does not give me +10dB over the 8341. That was disappointing. It’s hard to really tell considering i’m just eyeballing numbers in GLM and comparing from memory. The 8341s would give me numbers from 98-107dB. Probably they had the orange or red light on while doing it.

These can do more like 103-112dB. But rather than go into protection they prefer to clip. It comes on briefly but I don’t like seeing it. I suppose I will need to cover the lights for weekend listening. Realistically I got maybe +5-6dB for my trouble. Definitely worth it but not as much I thought I would get.

In any case the left sub likes to clip a lot. So let’s hope the extra bass from these bigger woofers plus the 7380 that’s hopefully showing up mid month will allow me satisfaction at lower overall SPLs.

The system is amazing. I mean just 8341s are a true end game system. But if you want room filling power you will need some subs. For some used to horns for example these really cannot compete. The midrange/high driver is true work of art but even in its 3rd generation cannot compete with the power of large systems. That’s why there is a whole range of traditional monitors at Genelec. They cannot phase those out and replace them with even the largest “ONE”. Since I prefer quality over quantity i’m sure I can make these work for me.

These are very initial impressions and I suppose Sunday I will know more about the differences.

Edit: Even “Fast Car” will clip at 112dB. (At my seating distance of approximately 3m) That tells me a few things. The limit is the mid/tweeter. However it’s subjectively very loud. Must be more bass. So the game is add more bass until satisfaction is reached at lower SPL levels. I can already say it’s more satisfying at lower levels.

Edit: So looking at these now compared to the 8341 is like entering a giant level in super Mario brothers. It’s insane like the 8341 ate a magic mushroom (or 3) or something. It’s almost surreal.

 

[Pearljam5000]

You have a pair of 8341 and a single 8361?

 

[srrxr71]

You have a pair of 8341 and a single 8361?

No hahaha a pair. I honestly don’t know what to do with the 8341s. Maybe take it to the office, but no work would get done.

I could play with surround but I don’t see the juice as worth the squeeze. I don’t watch movies and music content is not really there. I’m not dealing with getting a receiver and setting all that up for a couple of SACDs I have. I get an amazing center image and trying to “derive” a center channel from some system is pointless for me.


I’ll figure something out. But for now they are just sitting around. I didn’t realize GLM is so versatile I didn’t need to delete the old group. I could have just saved a new group and you can load them from the file system. Still I don’t have space here for both. Even to compare. But GLM will even save your groups to the cloud if you wish.

So the top level is layout and you can have as many of them as you want. Then groups within that. Each of those can have their own calibrations. Basically you can save and name any configuration you want and compare with one click. Pretty incredible.


Also interesting thing is I can turn off the bass management and play without the subs. There is a difference for sure. The more I play with this stuff I realized with bass as clean as this system provides there is nothing like enough bass seriously.

Edit: can’t really get over the size of these. With the same driver as the 8351 these require the entire face to serve as the waveguide. Why? And for what purpose? It’s insane the size of these. It’s like entering super sized goomba land.

 

[srrxr71]

It’s literally like this picture:

8361 8341 8331

 

[sajgre]

I guess rather than start a new thread I’ll piggyback on this.

First thing. Yes it’s a box in box. No the box is not that cute little full color thing which opens like an origami puzzle and the monitor is suspended in the middle like the 8341 package.

This has to be opened from the top. When you do you will find another brown box which has the monitor lying face down and strap upwards. They warn you to use that strap. You would do well to use it. Not too bad to lift and i’m not in the best of shape either. It’s the smudges you will leave on the front to upright it.

Thankfully it fits on the matching stand easily. Almost drops in.

The matching stands for this are FAR better than the matching stands for the 8341. Cable management is much better. The build is ridiculous. The spring loaded height adjustment is such a great touch.

It sounds like my familiar 8341s. I can’t really tell any difference. Besides I had to delete my all old calibrations and redo them for these. I suppose I could have kept them and compared but I don’t see the point.

Now I have found the red light. Very easy to find. I can listen at the midpoint of the volume knob. In fact it’s probably the better bass that lets me enjoy at lower levels. It could be the fact that it’s a weekday evening.

From very brief testing it does not give me +10dB over the 8341. That was disappointing. It’s hard to really tell considering i’m just eyeballing numbers in GLM and comparing from memory. The 8341s would give me numbers from 98-107dB. Probably they had the orange or red light on while doing it.

These can do more like 103-112dB. But rather than go into protection they prefer to clip. It comes on briefly but I don’t like seeing it. I suppose I will need to cover the lights for weekend listening. Realistically I got maybe +5-6dB for my trouble. Definitely worth it but not as much I thought I would get.

In any case the left sub likes to clip a lot. So let’s hope the extra bass from these bigger woofers plus the 7380 that’s hopefully showing up mid month will allow me satisfaction at lower overall SPLs.

The system is amazing. I mean just 8341s are a true end game system. But if you want room filling power you will need some subs. For some used to horns for example these really cannot compete. The midrange/high driver is true work of art but even in its 3rd generation cannot compete with the power of large systems. That’s why there is a whole range of traditional monitors at Genelec. They cannot phase those out and replace them with even the largest “ONE”. Since I prefer quality over quantity i’m sure I can make these work for me.

These are very initial impressions and I suppose Sunday I will know more about the differences.

Edit: Even “Fast Car” will clip at 112dB. (At my seating distance of approximately 3m) That tells me a few things. The limit is the mid/tweeter. However it’s subjectively very loud. Must be more bass. So the game is add more bass until satisfaction is reached at lower SPL levels. I can already say it’s more satisfying at lower levels.

Edit: So looking at these now compared to the 8341 is like entering a giant level in super Mario brothers. It’s insane like the 8341 ate a magic mushroom (or 3) or something. It’s almost surreal.

Are you talking about 112db peaks or average?

 

[srrxr71]

Are you talking about 112db peaks or average?

When it’s around clipping time it’s about the same I guess. I’m going by the GLM microphone itself so whatever time averaging it does. Seems to be pretty quick.

I saw it pegged around there. It meets spec too. I’m about 3m away. Should be around 113dB but I have a reasonably treated room.

The 8341 seems to protect itself better and won’t peg itself anywhere. I think it wants to drop output instead.

 

[hege]

GLM mic shows approx dBC/Z slow.

Can you measure a very bassy track on 8361A's only, like Roddy Rich - Peta? I doubt you'll get near 112dB, as that's what I could get for a pair of 1237A, little over 2m in very damped room:

Genelec 1237A vs 8361A

The 8341A is a 3-way, and its coax driver delivers a clean, precise sound in the mid/upper frequencies that runs circles around the 1032c (although the latter’s tweeter is fantastic, shared by all Genelec’s main monitors). However, like all their aluminum monitors, the 8341A demonstrates a...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[srrxr71]

GLM mic shows approx dBC/Z slow.

Can you measure a very bassy track on 8361A's only, like Roddy Rich - Peta? I doubt you'll get near 112dB, as that's what I could get for a pair of 1237A, little over 2m in very damped room:

Genelec 1237A vs 8361A

The 8341A is a 3-way, and its coax driver delivers a clean, precise sound in the mid/upper frequencies that runs circles around the 1032c (although the latter’s tweeter is fantastic, shared by all Genelec’s main monitors). However, like all their aluminum monitors, the 8341A demonstrates a...

audiosciencereview.com

Oh I doubt it. It was struggling there. I don’t even think bass is the issue. Even mids stop it in its tracks. I’ll try it but yeah these have limits. I’m not sure if it’s bass or mids that are the limit. I guess it could be either depending on the track.

Edit: I looked up the specs. I have to regrettably say these probably don’t meet spec. If they are clipping can I lower the digital input level? What difference would that make anyway?

Because 119x2 monitors would be 121. At 2m 118. At 3m should be greater than 115dB.

111-112dB is what I get at 3m and clipping means no headroom even.

I have to count on the 7380 to help my situation. Also 3m is not that far. If it turns out I need another 7380 then I will just have to order the W371s. Don’t know what else to do. Then spread the 3 subs around the room.

 

[Sancus]

Edit: I looked up the specs. I have to regrettably say these probably don’t meet spec. If they are clipping can I lower the digital input level? What difference would that make anyway?

Because 119x2 monitors would be 121. At 2m 118. At 3m should be greater than 115dB.

111-112dB is what I get at 3m and clipping means no headroom even.

A single 8361A will play *at least* 118dB @ 1m in the midrange, and in-room losses are typically 4-ish dB per 2x distance, so with two speakers you can definitely play a lot more than 112dB @ 3m. It will be significantly less than that in bass, and heavily dependent on how much boundary reinforcement the speakers are getting. The speakers are specced for 109dB average below 100hz and 118dB average 100hz-3khz (in half space, both). Proper testing has always confirmed their accuracy to date.

To effectively test this, you need to run a slow sweep and see at what frequencies the speakers are actually limiting. Playing music and guessing isn't going to work. If you're being limited by the output below 250hz but above sub cross(which is very possible), then the only fix is going to be W371As or (possibly) moving the speakers to get more boundary reinforcement.

All that said, 112dBC on a slow SPL meter is incredibly loud. In my testing, slow averaging underrates real peaks by at least 10dB, or even more. And dbC also cuts real values below 100hz even further. I've never played any music louder than 95-100dBC on a slow SPL meter, and even that is typically too loud for more than a few tracks before turning it down. Except I guess for weird things like Recondite - Pour where all the output is low bass.

I suppose I will need to cover the lights for weekend listening.

You can disable the lights in GLM, not totally sure if it prevents a red light, but it's worth a try.

 

[hege]

The speakers are specced for 109dB average below 100hz and 118dB average 100hz-3khz (in half space, both).

No, they aren't. Genelec figures are for 100hz-3khz, nothing else. And the 118dB you are quoting is short term, i.e. quite meaningless. Personally I only care about long term values.

 

[Sancus]

No, they aren't. Genelec figures are for 100hz-3khz, nothing else. And the 118dB you are quoting is short term, i.e. quite meaningless. Personally I only care about long term values.

You're going to want to look up the definition of IEC-weighted noise. It's pink noise. This makes the long term test a low bass test, since pink noise is down sloping. That's why it's 9dB lower than the short term value. It's also the main reason the short term value is 9dB higher, since it is not tested with IEC-weighted noise but rather an undisclosed sine wave restricted to 100hz-3khz.

Genelec could be clearer about these two things, frankly, but I guess they're assuming everyone reading the manual knows the definition of IEC-weighted noise.

Also, none of this is new. It completely matches S&R's results. The speaker WILL play 118dB, that's a fact, just not below 250hz.

 

[hege]

This makes the long term test a low bass test, since pink noise is down sloping.

I guess that explains my max bass tests with 1032C and 1237A being so close to the figures. They were against the wall.

Anyway, bass is pretty much always the limiting factor, I'm sure no one wants to listen very high SPLs without boosted lows and/or steep downwards tilt house curve. In that sense the maximum SPL in highs is academic, assuming it's not seriously crippled, and not listening from extreme distances etc.

 

[Sancus]

Anyway, bass is pretty much always the limiting factor, I'm sure no one wants to listen very high SPLs without boosted lows and/or steep downwards house curse.

Yes, i agree. I strongly suspect the clipping is happening below 200hz here. Honestly, I really hope it is. Otherwise these levels are actually scary. 112dBC at 200hz is about 101dBA, or in other words, it can cause hearing damage in under 15 minutes of cumulative exposure. At 500hz+, it can cause hearing damage in under 2 minutes...

 

[mkt]

It sounds like my familiar 8341s. I can’t really tell any difference.

I know this is not the whole story, but this makes me feel better about aiming for 8351s which pass the can I pick them up without fear of injury test.

 

[RobL]

. It’s insane the size of these. It’s like entering super sized goomba land.

These must look enormous coming from 8341’s. It wasn’t as big a jump for me coming from 1032’s, lol.

Yes, i agree. I strongly suspect the clipping is happening below 200hz here. Honestly, I really hope it is. Otherwise these levels are actually scary. 112dBC at 200hz is about 101dBA, or in other words, it can cause hearing damage in under 15 minutes of cumulative exposure. At 500hz+, it can cause hearing damage in under 2 minutes...

These monitors are really the first ones I have to periodically check what level I’m listening at. I don’t know if it’s the clarity or being point-source or what. I have a dB meter on my watch and more than a few times already when I glance at it I’m approaching 90dB during listening sessions without realizing it, and that’s at a 4m listening distance.