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8361A’s - First Impressions

aland

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Yeah very similar to my setup now. Except the w371 is not here. What would happen if you let the 2 7360s run below 50Hz? Have you tried it?

Even Genelec tell you in a bigger space you may need a sub.

I like to hear from people with experience with the product i’m looking to acquire. I just want to know if you tried all the combinations and how you felt about it.
I'm sorry that I can't say since I sold my 7360s to finance the W371s. I should have kept them for testing :)
My W371s are playing down to 22hz (0db) and 21hz (-3db) in my room. I have been in contact with Genelec before about adding a subwoofer and according to the W371 developer it's like tossing a coin if it would work with subwoofer. It might work but it can also get worse.
I'm planning to test the system with a Trinnov ST2 where I could modify the listening curve more than with GLM. I would rather use that than adding more speakers to the room. But this is not necessary for me in any way, would just be interesting to test.

But currently I'm happy with my system and don't see any reasons to change anything.

I'm using the W371s in both complementery mode and directivity continuous mode. Both have their advantages and I change depending on music genre.

EDIT: "Even Genelec tell you in a bigger space you may need a sub." I have never heard that before. I don't think Genelec recommends adding a sub to a 2-channel system with 371s. If they would recommend it they would also add that feature to GLM.
 

srrxr71

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I'm sorry that I can't say since I sold my 7360s to finance the W371s. I should have kept them for testing :)
My W371s are playing down to 22hz (0db) and 21hz (-3db) in my room. I have been in contact with Genelec before about adding a subwoofer and according to the W371 developer it's like tossing a coin if it would work with subwoofer. It might work but it can also get worse.
I'm planning to test the system with a Trinnov ST2 where I could modify the listening curve more than with GLM. I would rather use that than adding more speakers to the room. But this is not necessary for me in any way, would just be interesting to test.

But currently I'm happy with my system and don't see any reasons to change anything.

I'm using the W371s in both complementery mode and directivity continuous mode. Both have their advantages and I change depending on music genre.

EDIT: "Even Genelec tell you in a bigger space you may need a sub." I have never heard that before. I don't think Genelec recommends adding a sub to a 2-channel system with 371s. If they would recommend it they would also add that feature to GLM.
You’re telling GLM does not feature complementary mode with any subs?

I have no actual experience with it other than seeing that extra calibration in GLM which is locked out.

That’s been a complaint I’ve had for a long time. Why not let us do it with our existing subs? Or W371 and our subs?


I see why you would go with Trinnov at this point.

That extension is more than enough.

You got me thinking. My dealer says they will do trade ups. So I can send back the subs and the 8341s then my W371 pair would be almost paid for.

Time to put my thinking cap on and also email my dealer.
 

Sancus

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Genelec subs are sadly quite underpowered IMO. It's hard to compare their spec to CEA2010, but a 7380 is approximately equivalent to a quality ported 12-14" subwoofer like say the Arendal 1V, the SVS PB-2000, or the Monoprice 12" THX Ultra. Yet a single 7380 costs more than half as much as a W371A and is just far less useful in my eyes.

For a pair of Genelec 8361As I would want at least 2 7380-equivalents and honestly a 7382A would probably be more suitable. This is a major reason that I didn't buy Genelec subs, and would never, I'd rather just save that money for W371As later.
 
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aland

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You’re telling GLM does not feature complementary mode with any subs?

I have no actual experience with it other than seeing that extra calibration in GLM which is locked out.

That’s been a complaint I’ve had for a long time. Why not let us do it with our existing subs? Or W371 and our subs?


I see why you would go with Trinnov at this point.

That extension is more than enough.

You got me thinking. My dealer says they will do trade ups. So I can send back the subs and the 8341s then my W371 pair would be almost paid for.

Time to put my thinking cap on and also email my dealer.
GLM does not support subwoofer integration with W371s. No matter what mode you are running your 371s on. GLM will not phase align the subwoofers to the woofer-system. You can create a group with a subwoofer and calibrate the subwoofer but the integration has to be done manually.

You should try to listen to a woofer system before you push the buy button. I believe that most people that think they are lacking bass with the woofers are used with subwoofers and normally with a quite high bass boost. You will not get that with W371s. Many people haven't heard what a flat ass bass response sound like and maybe some of them are missing this 40hz hump.
 

srrxr71

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Genelec subs are sadly quite underpowered IMO. It's hard to compare their spec to CEA2010, but a 7380 is approximately equivalent to a quality ported 12-14" subwoofer like say the Arendal 1V, the SVS PB-2000, or the Monoprice 12" THX Ultra. Yet a single 7380 costs more than half as much as a W371A and is just far less useful in my eyes.

For a pair of Genelec 8361As I would want at least 2 7380-equivalents and honestly a 7382A would probably be more suitable. This is a major reason that I didn't buy Genelec subs, and would never, I'd rather just save that money for W371As later.
Yeah seriously money pit. I checked the subwoofer database of the old models and they were okay just 5x the cost. At this rate seriously going Trinnov and SVS may be smarter. They don’t even have proper multi sub integration.

I’m beginning to see that their strength is in the point source monitor. GLM is nice but for what we are doing we don’t care about latency.

Better to go to separate system for DSP and a different company for subs. It’s a hassle but actually less hassle than emailing my dealer every week for another hit - I mean subwoofer.
 

srrxr71

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GLM does not support subwoofer integration with W371s. No matter what mode you are running your 371s on. GLM will not phase align the subwoofers to the woofer-system. You can create a group with a subwoofer and calibrate the subwoofer but the integration has to be done manually.

You should try to listen to a woofer system before you push the buy button. I believe that most people that think they are lacking bass with the woofers are used with subwoofers and normally with a quite high bass boost. You will not get that with W371s. Many people haven't heard what a flat ass bass response sound like and maybe some of them are missing this 40hz hump.
Wow thank you for telling me!

Seriously thank you for coming on here and talking some sense into me. I have already emailed my dealer. I’m sending all this stuff back and ordering W371s. End game and really it’s already paid for I just didn’t realize it.

I just hate packing and mailing stuff but I’ll figure that out and get this done. Hopefully instead of all this piecemeal sub integrations I’ll just have w371/8361 combo and it will be here by Christmas.

Btw i’m not lacking bass but as former 7360 owner you must remember they clip just trying to play a little hard. That’s the reason I ordered 7380 not because it’s not enough bass. I want enough overall volume and these silly 7360s clip to provide it. So that’s where the 7380 “solution” came from. 7370 is a waste of time given the price difference from it and the 7380.


Also by any chance do you know if the monitor must sit on the W371s? That height is an issue. Also I just assembled the stands for the 8361 yesterday. I wish I just went for this combo from the beginning.
 
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aland

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Wow thank you for telling me!

Seriously thank you for coming on here and talking some sense into me. I have already emailed my dealer. I’m sending all this stuff back and ordering W371s. End game and really it’s already paid for I just didn’t realize it.

I just hate packing and mailing stuff but I’ll figure that out and get this done. Hopefully instead of all this piecemeal sub integrations I’ll just have w371/8361 combo and it will be here by Christmas.
I was not trying in any way to sell you a system :) I tried to explain that it's not that straightforward to add subwoofers to a 371-woofer system. That was the original question :)
I always recommend to listen to speakers before buying. Best to do in your own listening room but that could be difficult with these heavy towers. Why don't you call your country's Genelec distributor to check where you could get an opportunity to do this? Maybe some studio have them?
I listened to two different W371 system before I bought mine.

And remember about bass output. You can maximum add +3db gain in sound profiler to the woofer towers.

Good luck!
 

aland

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Also by any chance do you know if the monitor must sit on the W371s? That height is an issue. Also I just assembled the stands for the 8361 yesterday. I wish I just went for this combo from the beginning.
According to Genelec the monitors doesn't need to be placed on the towers. Check the manual of the W371. Mine are horizontally placed on the towers to get the coax as near as possible to ear height.

I have the 8351B, not 8361, and never maxed out dual 7360s with them. But I don't normally listen above 100dB. I have always the GLM software open and mic connected to control the sound pressure.
 

YSC

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Yeah seriously money pit. I checked the subwoofer database of the old models and they were okay just 5x the cost. At this rate seriously going Trinnov and SVS may be smarter. They don’t even have proper multi sub integration.

I’m beginning to see that their strength is in the point source monitor. GLM is nice but for what we are doing we don’t care about latency.

Better to go to separate system for DSP and a different company for subs. It’s a hassle but actually less hassle than emailing my dealer every week for another hit - I mean subwoofer.
Yea they are expensive sens the 7040A which is real cheap and takes minimal space. My personal feel is that pure performance and appearance wise isn’t that nice to home and WAF. Their selling point I would say is ease of integration with the matching high pass filter, the dip switch options for phase shift is more than normal 0/180 degree from other subs and for the real expensive 73x0 subs, capability to use GLM as brainless calibration. For geeks it’s hard to justify the cost, but then say someone with the money and just don’t wanna go into the trouble of calibrating it manually it could be the saviour which worth every penny
 
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RobL

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Anyone considered the 8361 but went with 1237 instead Becaue of SPL limitations?
If I sit 2 meters from the 8361 without a sub is there any chance I wouldn't have enough volume?
I'm confused by it Becaue the KH120 had enough SPL to blow my ears out from 1.5 meters away and they're tiny.
Not to worry, from 2m these will blow your eardrums.o_O
 

srrxr71

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According to Genelec the monitors doesn't need to be placed on the towers. Check the manual of the W371. Mine are horizontally placed on the towers to get the coax as near as possible to ear height.

I have the 8351B, not 8361, and never maxed out dual 7360s with them. But I don't normally listen above 100dB. I have always the GLM software open and mic connected to control the sound pressure.
That’s good to know. I have read the manual several times but it’s so vague. I emailed Genelec support already.

I already have +3dB on sound profiler from 0-200Hz.

I didn’t know the subs were clipping until I saw it in GLM. The lights on the subs are hard to see. Of course it all depends on your space. If you move to a larger space it can happen to you. More easily than you think it can. I don’t listen much above 100dB either and I sit about 3m from each. My room is treated if that makes any difference. The 7360s really are little toys in the grander scheme of things.

So I was on this slippery slope chasing SPL because things are clipping in here. Nobody would tolerate this from their system. This isn’t just “I want an upgrade”.

I always knew w371 is my end game I just tried to justify all my dumb slippery slope purchases thinking that it all would work with the W371 when I finally get them.

When you told me all these subs won’t work with the W371 I had to hit the brakes on this foolishness and go directly to W371 because all the dumb purchases basically add up to within $2k of a pair of W371. So might as well just get that. Set it up properly and retire from this site :D

That is the real end game. Less discussion and more listening. Although I must admit I do like talking about this stuff.
 
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srrxr71

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Yea they are expensive sens the 7040A which is real cheap and takes minimal space. My personal feel is that pure performance and appearance wise isn’t that nice to home and WAF. Their selling point I would say is ease of integration with the matching high pass filter, the dip switch options for phase shift is more than normal 0/180 degree from other subs and for the real expensive 73x0 subs, capability to use GLM as brainless calibration. For geeks it’s hard to justify the cost, but then say someone with the money and just don’t wanna go into the trouble of calibrating it manually it could be the saviour which worth every penny
Problem is they can’t drive all room sizes. That isn’t a problem until you experience it. When I had a desktop system probably even 8030 size was enough. Now I want to sit on a couch and have 3m to each monitor. That changes the physics drastically. Clipping lights coming on all day over here. Makes you order subs in the middle of the night in anger even.
 

srrxr71

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A single 8361A will play *at least* 118dB @ 1m in the midrange, and in-room losses are typically 4-ish dB per 2x distance, so with two speakers you can definitely play a lot more than 112dB @ 3m. It will be significantly less than that in bass, and heavily dependent on how much boundary reinforcement the speakers are getting. The speakers are specced for 109dB average below 100hz and 118dB average 100hz-3khz (in half space, both). Proper testing has always confirmed their accuracy to date.

To effectively test this, you need to run a slow sweep and see at what frequencies the speakers are actually limiting. Playing music and guessing isn't going to work. If you're being limited by the output below 250hz but above sub cross(which is very possible), then the only fix is going to be W371As or (possibly) moving the speakers to get more boundary reinforcement.

All that said, 112dBC on a slow SPL meter is incredibly loud. In my testing, slow averaging underrates real peaks by at least 10dB, or even more. And dbC also cuts real values below 100hz even further. I've never played any music louder than 95-100dBC on a slow SPL meter, and even that is typically too loud for more than a few tracks before turning it down. Except I guess for weird things like Recondite - Pour where all the output is low bass.


You can disable the lights in GLM, not totally sure if it prevents a red light, but it's worth a try.
So I just checked on say a YouTube guy just talking. No music. No bass guitar. I can get them to clip. It’s uncomfortably loud but not outrageously loud.

But I would still agree that I still need to do a proper sweep. I’m not doing it for a while honestly. This weekend for hardcore listening. All Saturday after work and all Sunday. I’ll be vegging out on the couch and not doing any tests or sweeps.

I’ll get to it eventually I suppose. But maybe not and I’ll just live with the best mid/tweeter I’ve ever heard in my life. Life changingly good. I’ll just keep within its limits and enjoy my music with them over measuring them.
 

YSC

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Problem is they can’t drive all room sizes. That isn’t a problem until you experience it. When I had a desktop system probably even 8030 size was enough. Now I want to sit on a couch and have 3m to each monitor. That changes the physics drastically. Clipping lights coming on all day over here. Makes you order subs in the middle of the night in anger even.
;) that's maybe the few"pros" for a tiny cage sized home

yea horses for courses, and I appreciate Genelec having a recommended room size chart somewhere so one could estimate roughly which is the one you need
 

srrxr71

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;) that's maybe the few"pros" for a tiny cage sized home

yea horses for courses, and I appreciate Genelec having a recommended room size chart somewhere so one could estimate roughly which is the one you need
Yes but never in my life did I know that 40 restaurants can exist in the same city block. So much great food. Even the hiking scene is very nice. Easily top 3 cities I’ve ever been to. NYC even has nothing on it.

So it’s all a trade off I guess and you can still enjoy what you like. I never thought I could get used to living in small space until I had to. Then I loved it!

This is the first time in my life I actually have a space I can listen at levels I want so I am going hog wild about it.
 
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YSC

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Yes but never in my life did I know that 40 restaurants can exist in the same city block. So much great food. Even the hiking scene is very nice. Easily top 3 cities I’ve ever been to. NYC even has nothing on it.

So it’s all a trade off I guess and you can still enjoy what you like. I never thought I could get used to living in small space until I had to. Then I loved it!

This is the first time in my life I actually have a space I can listen at levels I want so I am going hog wild about it.
for sure, still living here and kind of enjoying, lucky bit is I weight like half of average American ppl so according to relativity, I live bigger than it is.
 

srrxr71

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So I heard back from Genelec support.

I was totally wrong about trying to use extra subs with the W371.

Please nobody get the wrong idea about that.

In all honesty depending on your space enjoy the 8341/51/61 as you see fit. But put money in the piggy bank every time you listen to them.

Then just order w371. Really just get the 8361 to tide you over because it is very satisfying even without a sub. The subs make a difference but you wouldn’t miss them unless you heard them.

Just save up that much more to get the 8361 and then use that piggy bank. Put $50 each time you listen. It’s worth that much given today’s concert prices.

Then just crack that bank and get the w371
 
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Trell

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The w371 is not meant to be use with any other subs. It is meant to deliver enough bass to flat on its own.
And then there is this:

 
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