HDMI and DACs not evolving

[Chrispy]

ca. 3700eur here:

Yamaha R-N2000A network receiver

Powerful amplifier from Yamaha with lots of streaming and connection options, which makes it ideal for the modern home, where sound is still a top priority.

www.av-connection.com

Well yeah, no point in that then.

 

[sarumbear]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Can you put those Dollar signs in context? Is it a lump sum figure, per socket, percent of turnover, etc.?

 

[bungle]

I am also wondering why there are hundreds of hdmi extractors, splitters, switchers with earc and stuff, why cannot you have it in DAC.

 

[sarumbear]

IIRC HDMI hands out volume discounts, too and Yamaha is probably a major customer already....compared to a smaller outfit that has no volume to speak of....so maybe not about courage is all I'm saying.

What I’m trying to say is, produce a model and if it doesn’t sell discontinue it. If it’s a small outfit a small redesign is not prohibitively expensive, if it’s a big company then the license cost is not a major issue.

Besides, for a small outfit, offering a model that is unique in the market makes marketing easier.

 

[sarumbear]

I am also wondering why there are hundreds of hdmi extractors, splitters, switchers with earc and stuff, why cannot you have it in DAC.

Me too. Any idea why @Kal Rubinson ?

 

[Chrispy]

What I’m trying to say is, produce a model and if it doesn’t sell discontinue it. If it’s a small outfit a small redesign is not prohibitively expensive, if it’s a big company then the license cost is not a major issue.

Besides, for a small outfit, offering a model that is unique in the market makes marketing easier.

Certification and testing could be a pain for a smaller outfit, tho. Depends on the market possible. I think it's pretty small as to what the OP is seeking.

 

[Roland68]

Hey,

Why is the companies like miniDSP or any DAC's outside of AVR's lack the basic support for,

- HDMI in (to extract audio witth HDMI enabled functionalities , decode DD, Atmos , volume controls via CEC etc.)
- Optical Outs (external DACS etc used. -> where the hell is the devices with optical outs. my TV has one thank god.)

i have no use for AVR but i would like the HDMI improvements provided. Seems that the DACs are not evolving according to the mainnstream useability. if only the miniDSP or similar would accept the standards my life would be much easier.

if balanced is required, then the industry seems very divided. Buy full scale AVR preamp (HDMI) for 10k$ with XLR's or buy something like miniDSP and use optical from TV..

If the next TV has issues dont we have anyn industry between 10k and 1k?

Unfortunately, I don't quite understand what functionality you expect from HDMI in a normal stereo DAC.
A normal DAC chip can't do anything with DD, Atmos and so on. A 2.1 configuration is not easy to implement in a normal DAC because you would need a DSP on the digital side.
Also the bandwidth of HDMI for stereo audio would not bring any advantage since SPDIF and AES are equivalent. USB and i2s over LVDS are far superior to HDMI.

What do you mean by "HDMI improvements"?

 

[sarumbear]

Certification and testing could be a pain for a smaller outfit, tho. Depends on the market possible. I think it's pretty small as to what the OP is seeking.

The fact of the matter is OP is correct. Amplifier manufacturers are watching their market taken away by sound bars, a market that due to the sales channel differences, they cannot reach. Their timidness is slowly killing them.

 

[sarumbear]

Unfortunately, I don't quite understand what functionality you expect from HDMI in a normal stereo DAC.
A normal DAC chip can't do anything with DD, Atmos and so on. A 2.1 configuration is not easy to implement in a normal DAC because you would need a DSP on the digital side.
Also the bandwidth of HDMI for stereo audio would not bring any advantage since SPDIF and AES are equivalent. USB and i2s over LVDS are far superior to HDMI.

What do you mean by "HDMI improvements"?

eARC outputs decoded stereo or DD signal as well. The latter is free to decode.

 

[bungle]

What do you mean by "HDMI improvements"?

Many sources don’t have anything else than HDMI output (AppleTV, Google TV, gaming consoles, UHD Bluray players), so that is obvious gain that you can get audio to DAC. The HDMI CEC allows you auto power on and power off devices and also allow thing like volume control with any remote in your hand. If the DAC goes wild and starts to support Dolby MAT 2.0 (even if it is PCM only) then you can also get the best available stereo sound track that you cannot get by any other means in HDCP chain.

 

[Chrispy]

Many sources don’t have anything else than HDMI output, so that is obvious gain (AppleTV, Google TV, gaming consoles, UHD Bluray players), so that is obvious gain that you can get audio to DAC. The HDMI CEC allows you auto power on and power off devices and also allow thing like volume control with any remote in your hand. If the DAC goes wild and starts to support Dolby MAT 2.0 (even if it is PCM only) then you can also get the best available stereo sound track that you cannot get by any other means in HDCP chain.

HDMI CEC can also do goofy things, too. HDMI isn't the best interface but we're stuck with it due drm and bandwidth needs for now. Almost all my gear is basically hdmi except for my tt.

 

[Chrispy]

The fact of the matter is OP is correct. Amplifier manufacturers are watching their market taken away by sound bars, a market that due to the sales channel differences, they cannot reach. Their timidness is slowly killing them.

Even avrs outsell the 2ch stuff, tho. The big brands dominate the hdmi/hdcp/licensed codecs roost.

 

[sarumbear]

Many sources don’t have anything else than HDMI output (AppleTV, Google TV, gaming consoles, UHD Bluray players), so that is obvious gain that you can get audio to DAC. The HDMI CEC allows you auto power on and power off devices and also allow thing like volume control with any remote in your hand. If the DAC goes wild and starts to support Dolby MAT 2.0 (even if it is PCM only) then you can also get the best available stereo sound track that you cannot get by any other means in HDCP chain.

A standard HDMI output can be used on an input that accepts eARC signal.

 

[sarumbear]

Even avrs outsell the 2ch stuff, tho. The big brands dominate the hdmi/hdcp/licensed codecs roost.

In other words you are saying that stereo is dying and all stereo only manufacturers should give up and 2.0 or 2.1 will be history soon.

 

[Bleib]

Stereo won't be dying. Buy a TV and that's what you'll get.
Play radio and stereo is there.
Use portable and you'll use stereo.
Play games and use headphones and stereo again.

 

[Chrispy]

In other words you are saying that stereo is dying and all stereo only manufacturers should give up and 2.0 or 2.1 will be history soon.

Not particularly, it'll retain a niche, and could even grow perhaps if the silly parts of 2ch world gets out of the way.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Can you put those Dollar signs in context? Is it a lump sum figure, per socket, percent of turnover, etc.?

Not without doing research but, iirc, it is both a lump sum and fee per device and there are minima which work against small volumes.

 

[sarumbear]

Not without doing research but, iirc, it is both a lump sum and fee per device and there are minima which work against small volumes.

In other words we don’t know.

 

[Chrispy]

In other words we don’t know.

Not exactly public info....

 

[RayDunzl]

hdmi license fee - Google Search