HDMI and DACs not evolving

[pau]

Hey,

Why is the companies like miniDSP or any DAC's outside of AVR's lack the basic support for,

- HDMI in (to extract audio witth HDMI enabled functionalities , decode DD, Atmos , volume controls via CEC etc.)
- Optical Outs (external DACS etc used. -> where the hell is the devices with optical outs. my TV has one thank god.)

i have no use for AVR but i would like the HDMI improvements provided. Seems that the DACs are not evolving according to the mainnstream useability. if only the miniDSP or similar would accept the standards my life would be much easier.

if balanced is required, then the industry seems very divided. Buy full scale AVR preamp (HDMI) for 10k$ with XLR's or buy something like miniDSP and use optical from TV..

If the next TV has issues dont we have anyn industry between 10k and 1k?

 

[BDWoody]

Why is the companies like miniDSP or any DAC's outside of AVR's lack the basic support for,

- HDMI in (to extract audio witth HDMI enabled functionalities , decode DD, Atmos , volume controls via CEC etc.)
- Optical Outs (external DACS etc used. -> where the hell is the devices with optical outs. my TV has one thank god.)

My guess, and that's really all it is, is that the smaller companies can't really underwrite the cost of licensing HDCP and all the other bits and pieces that go into a modern AVR.

It would be nice to have some kind of HDMI digital splitter that I could feed into maybe a minidsp DDRC88D then straight into my JBL708Ps (digital input), but no such luck.

 

[dwkdnvr]

Unencrypted digital output from a protected HDMI signal is a violation of the license, and so it's impossible for a company to offer it. You either have to resort to DIY hardware mods, or rip/decrypt the content.

 

[Sancus]

- Optical Outs (external DACS etc used. -> where the hell is the devices with optical outs. my TV has one thank god.)

Optical is dead. It was never updated to support anything past compressed 5.1, uncompressed max is stereo. Manufacturers consider it a legacy connector. I would not expect to see it at all for much longer except maybe on stereo DACs.

HDMI IS the digital transport intended for consumer use. The limitations on licensing and difficulties in supporting the connector due to HDCP are not a bug, they're a feature.

Unencrypted digital output from a protected HDMI signal is a violation of the license, and so it's impossible for a company to offer it. You either have to resort to DIY hardware mods, or rip/decrypt the content.

They do rarely permit some types of digital output with a limitation of 16-bit, 48khz. The JBL SDP-55 can do this over Dante and some of the Trinnovs have AES outputs. I am sure the extremely high price points, professional transports, and rarity of these options is part of the reason they're permitted.

 

[mdsimon2]

My guess, and that's really all it is, is that the smaller companies can't really underwrite the cost of licensing HDCP and all the other bits and pieces that go into a modern AVR.

It would be nice to have some kind of HDMI digital splitter that I could feed into maybe a minidsp DDRC88D then straight into my JBL708Ps (digital input), but no such luck.

A Meridian HD621 or a Audiopraise VanityPro can turn HDMI to 4x SPDIF/AES if you are starting with a source that has been decoded in to PCM. Seems like an AppleTV paired with one of these would be an ideal solution.

Michael

 

[Trell]

Optical is dead. It was never updated to support anything past compressed 5.1, uncompressed max is stereo.

Had they supported ADAT you could get 8 channels at 24 bits/48 kHz. Not that I think that will happen, though.

 

[pau]

Optical is dead. It was never updated to support anything past compressed 5.1, uncompressed max is stereo. Manufacturers consider it a legacy connector. I would not expect to see it at all for much longer except maybe on stereo DACs.

HDMI IS the digital transport intended for consumer use. The limitations on licensing and difficulties in supporting the connector due to HDCP are not a bug, they're a feature.


They do rarely permit some types of digital output with a limitation of 16-bit, 48khz. The JBL SDP-55 can do this over Dante and some of the Trinnovs have AES outputs. I am sure the extremely high price points, professional transports, and rarity of these options is part of the reason they're permitted.

Well stereo or 2.1 would be all i would need to be honest. Just for stereo sounds via DACs there is lots to acquire with HDMI -> Dolby decoding, Onscreen menus, volume controls, CEC on / off, possibly loudness & adjusts. the gab is huge to invest 7k-10k to AVR preamp to just use it with stereo setup..

Im quit happy with HTPC+OLED providing all i need via optical. Just wondering the markets overall and is my need such minority that no devices drop in there.

Anyways it was fridays drunken rant for the current market driven situation.

 

[bungle]

Just wondering the markets overall and is my need such minority that no devices drop in there.

My needs:
- HDMI eARC input (minority cares) in DAC (minority cares)
- XLR output (minority cares) from DAC (minority cares)
- Analog inputs (minority cares) in DAC/Pre (minority cares)
- More than one Toslink input (minority cares) in DAC (minority cares)

So:
- DACs (minority cares)
- Pre/Pro (minority cares)
- AVR (minority cares)
- Active speakers (minority cares)

Average Joe goes to store and buys big screen and bluetooth speaker. Moderate Joe buys OLED and a sound bar. Everyone else fits to some small niche.

 

[Chrispy]

Well stereo or 2.1 would be all i would need to be honest. Just for stereo sounds via DACs there is lots to acquire with HDMI -> Dolby decoding, Onscreen menus, volume controls, CEC on / off, possibly loudness & adjusts. the gab is huge to invest 7k-10k to AVR preamp to just use it with stereo setup..

Im quit happy with HTPC+OLED providing all i need via optical. Just wondering the markets overall and is my need such minority that no devices drop in there.

Anyways it was fridays drunken rant for the current market driven situation.

How about one of these? https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/r-n2000a/index.html

 

[sarumbear]

Unencrypted digital output from a protected HDMI signal is a violation of the license, and so it's impossible for a company to offer it. You either have to resort to DIY hardware mods, or rip/decrypt the content.

Why can’t they license it?

 

[sarumbear]

How about one of these? https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/r-n2000a/index.html

Exactly. It is perfectly possible to use HDMI input on a stereo unit and even offer a sub out with adjustable active crossover. The license excuse doesn’t hold. The manufacturers are simply lazy.

 

[Chrispy]

Exactly. It is perfectly possible to use HDMI input on a stereo unit and even offer a sub out with adjustable active crossover. The license excuse doesn’t hold. The manufacturers are simply lazy.

Or Yamaha has sufficient license for this use from HDMI....didn't look as to the Dolby type features that also can cost....

 

[MCH]

How about one of these? https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/r-n2000a/index.html

That's a nice looking amp. But I read somewhere 10-11keur with a pair of speakers? Well I would just hope it is 8k pair of speakers

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Why can’t they license it?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[bungle]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

How do we have a lot of sound bar manufacturers, some even quite small and they don’t seem to struggle with eARC or Atmos decoding, and selling stuff for a few hundred per piece.

 

[Chrispy]

That's a nice looking amp. But I read somewhere 10-11keur with a pair of speakers? Well I would just hope it is 8k pair of speakers

Well if it is a 2-3k receiver it's a bit overpriced. Was thinking more like R-N803 territory, but didn't look for pricing.

 

[Chrispy]

How do we have a lot of sound bar manufacturers, some even quite small and they don’t seem to struggle wit eARC or Atmos decoding.

Because they sell far more of those than geeky audiophile 2ch dac type setups

 

[sarumbear]

Or Yamaha has sufficient license for this use from HDMI....didn't look as to the Dolby type features that also can cost....

At the end of the day it’s a cost. In this industry there’s a place for every price range. Still HDMI input is very scarce on stereo amplifiers. There are few around though.

NAD C 389 is an upgradeable stereo amplifier with HDMI eARC built-in

A traditional integrated with a modern twist

www.whathifi.com

 

[MCH]

Well if it is a 2-3k receiver it's a bit overpriced. Was thinking more like R-N803 territory, but didn't look for pricing.

ca. 3700eur here:

Yamaha R-N2000A network receiver

Powerful amplifier from Yamaha with lots of streaming and connection options, which makes it ideal for the modern home, where sound is still a top priority.

www.av-connection.com

 

[Chrispy]

At the end of the day it’s a cost. In this industry there’s a place for every price range. Still HDMI input is very scarce on stereo amplifiers. There are few around though.

NAD C 389 is an upgradeable stereo amplifier with HDMI eARC built-in

A traditional integrated with a modern twist

www.whathifi.com

IIRC HDMI hands out volume discounts, too and Yamaha is probably a major customer already....compared to a smaller outfit that has no volume to speak of....so maybe not about courage is all I'm saying.