To the OP: what was the amplifier gain on the P422 ?
20.5 db via XLr or 26.5 via RCA ?
Very nice and thorough measurement report and review.When the output is very low, the signal itself is so small that it is affected by external factors, so it shows a rather high noise + distortion level. As the output gradually increases, the signal strength becomes stronger, the purity of the signal increases, and when the finally reached to output limits, the noise and distortion increase rapid and sharp.
High waifu acceptance factor! People can enjoy crystal clear 2d to 3d soundstage conversion with these I bet!
Unfortunately that is the norm. Sometimes if you contact the company they will provide it. Ultimately though, you start with a known low distortion load and reference it. I did that against the Dale loads that Benchmark provided me. And OP is doing the same with the ones that March gave him.I don't see that in specsheets...
???
It is not realistic to read a power value from a chart that shows amplifier is clipping and the distortion value is changing 100 fold within a few watts.View attachment 230122
Look at the y-axis for 1% and find the corresponding x-axis value.
So 210 watts.
Note, this looks to be approximated by Matias.
The 500W reading is not 1% as it is listed on the post nor on the spreadsheet though is it?
This is the best we can do with what we're given. Later, Amir and others started showing exact values, so it's no longer an issue.It is not realistic to read a power value from a chart that shows amplifier is clipping and the distortion value is changing 100 fold within a few watts.
That's because there's some kind of limiter.The 500W reading is not 1% as it is listed on the post nor on the spreadsheet though is it?
I respectfully disagree. The current data shows that the amplifier can distort up to 1%, which is not true. It either clips or shuts down but never distorts 1% while operating. Can you see where I am coming from?That's because there's some kind of limiter.
Amir said: "Protection circuit shut the unit down after that so it is quite safe to try."
So we know this is the limit.
What is the point of this? Trying to specify max output power, What number do you want to use If those are not right? If it never get’s to 1% and you set as max the treshold of 1% for comparison sake, what is the max power then?I respectfully disagree. The current data shows that the amplifier can distort up to 1%, which is not true. It either clips or shuts down but never distorts 1% while operating. Can you see where I am coming from?
I am sorry if I am not making myself clear and thank you for continuing the chat. I appreciate it.What is the point of this? Trying to specify max output power, What number do you want to use If those are not right? If it never get’s to 1% and you set as max the treshold of 1% for comparison sake, what is the max power then?
I hear you, but comparing output power specs, You have to set up a treshold where it is considered the amp is clipping and therefore the max power is attained. If an amp never clips, well max power is attained, Ok it should maybe say, at 1% with « when protection circuit allows it. » in parethesis, maybe but what can you do, if it never clips you are still not going any more power than that, that’s what matter if what you are comparing power specs and not distortion specs. Wheter you put the treshold at 0.1, 1, 10%, you need to have a reference value when comparing power specs, but it’s only to assess what’s considered max! If it max out before getting there well, you just don’t need the treshold it’s max is obvious. Sure, let’s put a asterix and say » this amp never got to 1% » ok, but you can still compare the value and it’s obvious what goes in thatbox if an amp shut down before clipping.I am sorry if I am not making myself clear and thank you for continuing the chat. I appreciate it.
My point is not about the power capacity but the distortion. The column header says at the shown power value distortion is 1%. But, it isn’t. Amplifier either shuts down or clips. In the former there is no distortion as there’s no signal, in the latter it is a value read from a chart that shows hard clipping. Neither value is in anyway an operating value.
But why use such a high distortion value (1%) in this day and age? It will be more useful, in my view, if the distortion value is lowered and the asterisk is used for amplifier that have high distortion levels. Or simply rename the column as max power.I hear you, but comparing output power specs, You have to set up a treshold where it is considered the amp is clipping and therefore the max power is attained.
But ASR readers are not average consumers, are they?The average consumer (including me) doesn't care about these type of distinctions.
Ok, but in the end, we still have many manufacturers that don’t specify any, that’s way worst. What matter is to know exactly how it’s measured. It’s been showed in these pages that many topping amps, for exemple specify max power at 10% distortion and don’t even tell you. (To there credit yes many have measurment reports but not all). 1% may be high, but what if you want to specify the max power of a tube amp where it’ll get there and never really hard clip. The fact is there is no standard. I would of course like if it was srandardized. 1% is as good as any, at least it’s something.But why use such a high distortion value (1%) in this day and age? It will be more useful, in my view, if the distortion value is lowered and the asterisk is used for amplifier that have high distortion levels. Or simply rename the column as max power.
It is an empirical value. If you pick much lower number, due to variability of noise+distortion, you get different run to run numbers. At 1% there is enough distortion that the computed power at that distortion has very small variation. I spent good bit of time testing before arriving at this value (and used 0.1% at one point).But why use such a high distortion value (1%) in this day and age?
That’s the reason d’être of ASR, isn’t it, to out those naughty manufacturers.Ok, but in the end, we still have many manufacturers that don’t specify any, that’s way worst. What matter is to know exactly how it’s measured. It’s been showed in these pages that many topping amps, for exemple specify max power at 10% distortion and don’t even tell you. (To there credit yes many have measurment reports but not all).
That’s when you use the asterisks.1% may be high, but what if you want to specify the max power of a tube amp where it’ll get there and never really hard clip.
I was simply hoping that as ASR making SINAD a standard it could create a modern standard that is fit for the era and current market. Other than at powers they are not designed for (but sometimes advertised as by marketers) all modern amplifiers operates at less than 1% distortion.The fact is there is no standard. I would of course like if it was srandardized. 1% is as good as any, at least it’s something.