Michael Fremer Leaving Stereophile?

[Balle Clorin]

You called? Yes, I read this but your efforts would be more effective if you addressed them to Jim Austin and/or John Atkinson. I am not in the line of command.
I am on the record about wanting bench measurements for all reviewed products.

I sendt an email to editor Jim Austin about 6 months ago about this , and proposed to include Shaknspin data in every turntable review. I also attached the excel spreadsheet I use ( as shown in my post) to present the data Imported from Shaknspin. I read Fremer stating that som manufactures refused reviews due to the incorrectness on the Platterspeed record Fremer use, Shaknspin will solve that problem . But I also suspect some high end turntable manufacturers will be embarrased getting their performance objectively presented. But the customers has a right to know, I think. Maybe you can whisper in Jim Austins ear someday. HifiNews publish vinyl performance data, Stereophile could too I think

EDIT:Correction I sent it to stereophile letters, SLetters, Forwarded it to Jim Austin just now.

 

[DMill]

I sendt an email to editor Jim Austin about 6 months ago about this , and proposed to include Shaknspin data in every turntable review. I also attached the excel spreadsheet I use ( as shown in my post) to present the data Imported from Shaknspin.

presenting measured data like this would be departure from what Stereophile has always done. Instead they use their ABC recommended components rankings quarterly I think. It is quite subjective but I do think measurements play into it. As you know they probably make the lions share of their revenue through advertising sales. A ranking like what you are proposing has a lot of downside for them considering current and potential advertisers.

 

[Vacceo]

presenting measured data like this would be departure from what Stereophile has always done. Instead they use their ABC recommended components rankings quarterly I think. It is quite subjective but I do think measurements play into it. As you know they probably make the lions share of their revenue through advertising sales. A ranking like what you are proposing has a lot of downside for them considering current and potential advertisers.

If Stereophile moved towards objective, that'd be the confirmation that what Amir and Erin do is far more important that all the creative literature and Diana Krall.

 

[watchnerd]

Does anyone here really care ?

I'm devastated.

 

[watchnerd]

He must have money if he lives in Manhatten and has a pair of Wilson Alexias (?) and all the other absurd "price-no-object" audiophile accoutrements.

I thought he was in Jersey?

 

[watchnerd]

Odd. I almost always listen to whole albums. Via digital. Maybe it's a jazz thing.

90% of my vinyl is jazz, so I can't tell the genre effect.

 

[watchnerd]

Who cares? In my mind Fremer is the Kim Kardashian of audio reviewers. Why are either of them a thing?

The power of a big ass.

Just in different ways.

 

[watchnerd]

I like Vinyl for the technical challenges and the opportunity to tinker and optimize, it is a hobby, how good can I get it?. Vinyl is like a wooden row boat : lot of work, poor performance but beautiful and fun.

Fremer has some good an interesting Youtube videos for Hifishows and really good visits to manufacturers, Rega and HifiFiction in particular
From him I also learned about vinylsetup tricks that was useful. To bad he too seldom published the speed data from Shaknspin
https://shaknspin.wordpress.com/, The platter speed record he used has too much wow to be useful.
Maybe the new analog team at Stereophile and Analog Planet can now include objective vinyl data on a more regular basis` like JA does? @Kal Rubinson , do you hear me?


This is probably misplaced but anyway, plenty of reason to play CD instead,,. It has been quite amusing seeing poor measuring turntable been praised in the same reveiew for rock solid pitch stability.... It is now the time and an opportunity for Stereophile to step up the objective side of turntable reviews. I hope you read this Kalman Rubinson

The objective measurements are the reason I have subscribed to Stereophile for 20+ years.
But for Vinyl I had to make my own,, like this. based on Shaknspin "Gyrometer" I plot my own parameter 6Hz low pass speed variation in practice it is very similar to the peak wow and 2s wow that W&F meters gives, and the 6Hz lowpass filtering gives an good visual impression of the speed variations( and easy to to in Excel)

Performance vs price

View attachment 213393

How different speed parameters correlate, can you guess why WRMS and DIN is popular with manufacturers?
View attachment 213396
How speed variations look like and differ, Many belt drives ,some direct drives

View attachment 213400View attachment 213401
View attachment 213402
View attachment 213403
View attachment 213404

and finallly the two best from the same producer using a different drive mechanism
View attachment 213405

Is vinyl a good format, NO, is it an interesting and enjoyable format, YES for me it is, also because my turntable is quite good and very nice looking and was not expensive.
when I bought it. It is the plot in the first top left.
View attachment 213409

Sir you are absolutely bonkers.

I admire your insanity.

Especially trying to perfect a Michell Gyro (which I also have)....between the drift in speed and drift in the spring bounce, it is a wonderful torture machine.

 

[mhardy6647]

He must have money if he lives in Manhatten and has a pair of Wilson Alexias (?) and all the other absurd "price-no-object" audiophile accoutrements. But, Jeez, is he ever a turd. And he follows the clueless, monied audiophile tradition of a closet sized room full of monolithic speakers, a floor completely strewn with a network of Anaconda-like cables, massive overfilled racks of equipment (turntables, tube amps, dacs, power conditioners, et al), and bookcase after bookcase of vinyl record albums.

Can't sound good, and the lack of Feng Shui in the listening room has to further disturb an already, obviously unquiet mind.

Is Manhatten one of those almost as good as the real thing items that I often see at places like Amazon and Aliexpress?

 

[DSJR]

Oh, I had a Garrard Zero 100 something-or-other (maybe a "B", I'd have to go back and look).
Not for very long.

The Garrards were, absolutely, worse (than the DUALs). Absolutely.
The "zero tracking error" Garrards were probably the worstest of allest (to channel Dr. Seuss).

Actually, among other Garrards that visited our house but wore out there welcomes quickly:
LAB-95
990 (EDIT: 990B)
LAB-80 (two of those).

I wanted to like the LAB-80s. I really did. Pretty substantial. Businesslike. Afromosia wood in the tonearm.
But... uggggh.
I think Garrard must've subcontracted them to Lucas and or British Leyland.

Now you're being all audiophile-snob on me - oh gawd, what have I started here......

I ADORE my Lab 80mk2. Sure it clonks and clanks like a tractor and superficially the arm does it all wrong with mass and over-long counterweight BUT it sounded great with a V15 IV HE and ADC Phase IV and XLM III at 1.25g once I'd set the trip up right. the cam pivot is sticky with dried out lube, but it'llbe done. it 'Sounds' just fine with a Grado F1+ installed (overhang ain't bad either despite the fact you can't adjust it) and drive/bearing noise is very low in frequency so no issue with small to medium speakers.

The 75 and 95 with flippers for control were a huge tolerance step-down as Plessey were penny pinching. I had an SL95 which was a one owner mint deck and it was horrible, even with an AT95E in it. I'd also owned a new run-out (so cheap) SL95B 'Module' with ally trimmed plinth (lid had a stay to hold it up) and this one was delightful. Again, modern cartridges no issue for the arm mass and Garrard by this time had improved the bearings. The tonearm on all of these used a ball race at the top and a 'sleeve' for the bottom which still could be good as later ones didn't slop around as much - remember gravity loading on the bearings!

I have an 86SB which is all but silent through the stylus!!! (same low drive noise subjectively as my Thorens 160!). Our very own @frankdernie put me right on the way resonances can be dissipated rather than the Linn approach of blocking and reflecting them back. That flimsy tonearm is actually a triumph with the right cartridge and the main bearing was better than ever. I shouldn't love it but I do. I also have my second AP76 which is so much better made than my first one I bought in 1972 and grew to hate.

The Zero 100 had some features with Dual influence (the 86/100 SB models borrowed even more) and I love the white deck-plate and brass fittings. Again, the Linnie in me dislikes the apparent slop in the tonearm, bit once gravity and other forces act on the shebang, it works a treat with Ortofon OM and the resident VMS10E II. It's not as quiet as the SB version, which was around 10dB better according to Martin Colloms, but then I don't use speakers with emphasised sub 100hz response with these decks so never an issue.

My Duals - yes, they're like precision instruments with slick and precise flipper controls and so on and they never suffered until later the kind of penny pinching Garrard did (hoping Mr Dernie may see this and chip in if the moderators don't ban this kind of discussion as too much thread drift), but they're so damned good they're boring - like an appliance!!! To sort of come back on topic, *vinyl* is such an emotional rather than high fidelity thing in this day and age, I still find myself gazing adoringly at whatever Garrard I have in the second system and take the objectively far superior Dual 701 in the main system totally for granted! I gave up on 'proper' turntables decades ago but did hanker after cobbling an LP12 together out of cast off parts (fifty odd quid for an effin' belt, I ask you), but as my work for dealers has all but wound down now, that ain't gonna happen (the LP12 is the perfect machine for making records sound 'nice' in all the audiophool ways, but although better than ever now with silly high price to match, it's still a 'sorted' Tghorens 150 at heart and the latter can be got in various used states for £200 or less...)

I'm really sorry for the distraction above folks, as this has nothing to do with an outspoken reviewer moving his work-house to new pastures. Vinyl is totally bonkers at his level, but the opposite end such as the decks above (but they're AUTO!!!) can get surprising amounts out of the grooves and quite tidily too

 

[DSJR]

Especially trying to perfect a Michell Gyro (which I also have)....between the drift in speed and drift in the spring bounce, it is a wonderful torture machine.

It's the last 2 -3mm of 'bounce' that's critical in these I find. Get that right and the deck sounds quite stable. Any bad 'shimmy' though and the sound's all over the place I find.

Gawd, I'm turning this thread into an offshoot of Vinyl Engine, I'm so sorry...

 

[watchnerd]

It's the last 2 -3mm of 'bounce' that's critical in these I find. Get that right and the deck sounds quite stable. Any bad 'shimmy' though and the sound's all over the place I find.

Using which material of thrust ball bearings and which material of pillar o-rings?

Oh, and which bearing oil, too.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I like Vinyl for the technical challenges and the opportunity to tinker and optimize, it is a hobby, how good can I get it?. Vinyl is like a wooden row boat : lot of work, poor performance but beautiful and fun.

Maybe the new analog team at Stereophile and Analog Planet can now include objective vinyl data on a more regular basis` like JA does? @Kal Rubinson , do you hear me?

I like the row boat analogy - that's right on.

As to the upcoming 'analog team' at Stereophile and Analog Planet, as much as I hate to admit this, Fremer was the most useful person for giving information about this rather arcane subject. There was just a lot of chaff which had to be pushed aside to get to the wheat, sure, but there were nuggets of useful stuff which helped me. His record reviews were generally quite good also.

Mike Mettler is from Sound & Vision, and judging from that mass-market audio/video oriented rag, the more in-depth information is likely to be watered down or eliminated. I'm afraid we're going to get articles like "How To Select Vinyl To Play At Your Dinner Parties".

Unless they can snag someone like Michael Trei, who is the only other person I can think of who is on the same level of knowledge as Fremer, I'm afraid we're in for a lot of fluff.

 

[DSJR]

I'd suggest what the thing came with (harder thrust balls can cause excess wear in the spindle tip (I'm no engineer but I've been told the materials have to work together for best wear properties) As for oil, I'd ask Michell in the first instance (they made the thing and should know which is best). No idea on pillar O rings I'm afraid as I used what the decks came with*. All I can say is that after first hand exposure to LP12's since 1976, the Gyro suspension is a pain if a proper vertical bounce with no shikmmy is the requirement (I admit I didn't setup many Gyros and no doubt, experience improves repeatability just as it does the Lp12 'Fruitbox.' (Fruitbox? Hear an early one pre 1991 with Ittok arm and you'll get it )

* I did see ads for a non-spring suspension for these and the Orbe, using rings similar in basic concept to the SME decks. No experience whatsoever but if isolation is at least as good and the 'sub chassis' doesn't whip as it can with the springs, I'd investigate that. Oh, the Orbe platter and upgrade really does seem to improve things subjectively... (Come back Notts Acespacedeck/Rega arm, all is forgiven, not that was was anything to forgive, ever... )

 

[Balle Clorin]

Sir you are absolutely bonkers.

I admire your insanity.

Especially trying to perfect a Michell Gyro (which I also have)....between the drift in speed and drift in the spring bounce, it is a wonderful torture machine.

He he. Great fun, at one point it performed with a speed stability like a Technics 1200G , no kidding
, I can prove it,and posted video of it on my Youtube but after an oil change I f*d it up. Most of the time I use Roon….

But I listen to music too…

 

[watchnerd]

I'd suggest what the thing came with (harder thrust balls can cause excess wear in the spindle tip (I'm no engineer but I've been told the materials have to work together for best wear properties) As for oil, I'd ask Michell in the first instance (they made the thing and should know which is best). No idea on pillar O rings I'm afraid as I used what the decks came with*. All I can say is that after first hand exposure to LP12's since 1976, the Gyro suspension is a pain if a proper vertical bounce with no shikmmy is the requirement (I admit I didn't setup many Gyros and no doubt, experience improves repeatability just as it does the Lp12 'Fruitbox.' (Fruitbox? Hear an early one pre 1991 with Ittok arm and you'll get it )

* I did see ads for a non-spring suspension for these and the Orbe, using rings similar in basic concept to the SME decks. No experience whatsoever but if isolation is at least as good and the 'sub chassis' doesn't whip as it can with the springs, I'd investigate that. Oh, the Orbe platter and upgrade really does seem to improve things subjectively... (Come back Notts Acespacedeck/Rega arm, all is forgiven, not that was was anything to forgive, ever... )

Dude....

You just jumped the Vinyl Engine shark on ASR.

We can't be friends anymore.

I have to pretend I don't know you.

 

[watchnerd]

He he. Great fun, at one point it performed with a speed stability like a Technics 1200G , no kidding
, I can prove it,and posted video of it on my Youtube but after an oil change I f*d it up. Most of the time I use Roon….

But I listen to music too…

Are you retired?

 

[Balle Clorin]

Why do you ask? 5 years 2 months 25 days and 11 hours and 35 minutes , approximately, until I retire at 67…not allowed by company to work any longer, maybe I start as an consultant…

 

[watchnerd]

Why do you ask? 5 years 2 months 25 days and 11 hours and 35 minutes , approximately, until I retire at 67…

Just curious. It takes a lot of time to run experiments and you've done a lot of them.

 

[Balle Clorin]

The benefits of being somewhat disabled and not able to have other more physical time consuming hobbies….