Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

[whazzup]

Yeah
It so good that my friend prefers his cheapo class AB amp not no mention class A he also owns and regrets buying PA5

Noted.
It's entirely possible his 'cheapo class AB' amp is not as neutral as the PA5. Maybe his amp gives slight boosts to mids or low end, or he's playing it at a higher volume. From your description seems he's not measuring anything at all, so it's anybody's guess.

It's a very different problem than looking for specific tests to prove a more expensive amp is better than the PA5.

 

[DHT 845]

Ok then we are waiting for your complaints.

Not sure if i like these Topping cables, they are silver-coated, whereas i prefer pure copper for interconnects.

He bought custom made klotz copper cables, not topping... As fas as silvered copper chinese odin replicas are not bad ;-) Just tiny bit tremble emphasis but clean and spacious.

 

[Xulonn]

As fas as silvered copper chinese odin replicas are not bad ;-) Just tiny bit treble emphasis but clean and spacious.

And of course, you know this perception represents sonic reality, because you compared the cables using rigorous, carefully controlled double blind testing with instantaneous switching - correct?

That is a remarkable achievement, because no one else has ever been able to hear differences in properly controlled comparison tests on audio cables that do not have things other than end-to-end low-resistance wire between the interconnects!

/s.

 

[gfinlays]

So as long as my input voltage stays around 2Vrms I need not worry about the clipping or distortion, correct?

I think the volume level will prevent you reaching clipping or distortion!

EDIT - or are you concerned about clipping at the input? Fear not, the PA5 has a balanced input which is rated to >4V. I fed mine 4.7 V the other evening and it wasn't clipping on the oscilloscope trace. I'll have to test it, but I think it unlikely that it would clip until it reaches somewhere nearer 7 or 8 V. Input sensitivity is simply the minimum voltage needed to reach full power. Going above it doesn't mean the input will clip. It just means the output will clip before the volume knob reaches maximum.

 

[anotherhobby]

So as long as my input voltage stays around 2Vrms I need not worry about the clipping or distortion, correct?

I feed my PA5 4V balanced from my miniDSP Flex with zero issues.

 

[gfinlays]

Yeah
It so good that my friend prefers his cheapo class AB amp not no mention class A he also owns and regrets buying PA5

Hehe, audiophools will go to extremes to justify their purchases. In all honesty, the biggest issue in the audiophile world is cr@p loudspeakers. Just look at some of Amir's Klippel measurements! They're often voiced to grab the listener's attention in a short listening session, which usually results in them becoming fatiguing to listen to with extended playback. They then start looking further back in the chain to find 'smoother' source equipment to compensate.

Find a well-designed speaker (benign impedance, smooth frequency response, even directionality and power response etc. etc.), drive it with quality, neutral measuring source equipment and audio Nirvana is yours.

Most of the competent DIY speaker designs out there will substantially outperform commercial designs costing an order of magnitude more. Some of the DIY designers are incredibly skilled - they produce technically superb speakers that you can listen to all day. Drive them with well-measuring source equipment and you're sorted!

No 'system synergy' (aka compensating for one flaw with another flaw) required.

 

[DHT 845]

Hehe, audiophools will go to extremes to justify their purchases. In all honesty, the biggest issue in the audiophile world is cr@p loudspeakers. Just look at some of Amir's Klippel measurements! They're often voiced to grab the listener's attention in a short listening session, which usually results in them becoming fatiguing to listen to with extended playback. They then start looking further back in the chain to find 'smoother' source equipment to compensate.

Find a well-designed speaker (benign impedance, smooth frequency response, even directionality and power response etc. etc.), drive it with quality, neutral measuring source equipment and audio Nirvana is yours.

Most of the competent DIY speaker designs out there will substantially outperform commercial designs costing an order of magnitude more. Some of the DIY designers are incredibly skilled - they produce technically superb speakers that you can listen to all day. Drive them with well-measuring source equipment and you're sorted!

No 'system synergy' (aka compensating for one flaw with another flaw) required.

My friend constructs speakers as I do and he has several pairs at home of diy as well as original yamaha ns-1000 monitors, I wouldn't call him audiophool. He just do not like PA5, what's a big deal?

 

[gfinlays]

My friend constructs speakers as I do and he has several pairs at home of diy as well as original yamaha ns-1000 monitors, I wouldn't call him audiophool. He just do not like PA5, what's a big deal?

Oops, my bad.

I struggle to understand why someone wouldn't like the PA5 though. It's so transparent and neutral. If it sounds bad with a pair of speakers, then the speakers are at fault, not the PA5.

I'm struggling to hear any audible difference between the PA5 and the Benchmark AHB2. I can hear a subtle difference between these and a DK Design VS.1/LSA Signature MK3. The DK/LSA is a hybrid with a tube pre-amp stage. Even with very neutral Russian Reflektor 6H23N-EB tubes in the preamp stage, there's a hint of 'valve' sound to it.

Speakers are Zaph Audio ZRT http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZRT.html (Scan-Speak Revelator/Illuminator drivers) in an acoustically treated room.

 

[antcollinet]

So as long as my input voltage stays around 2Vrms I need not worry about the clipping or distortion, correct?

Probably, but clipping depends on the peaks, not on the RMS.

2.6V rms is full power - that is just below 3.7V peak. So higher peak voltages than that will start to be clipped.

 

[gfinlays]

My friend constructs speakers as I do and he has several pairs at home of diy as well as original yamaha ns-1000 monitors, I wouldn't call him audiophool. He just do not like PA5, what's a big deal?

Oops, my bad.

I struggle to understand why someone wouldn't like the PA5 though. It's transparent and neutral. If it sounds bad with a pair of speakers, the speakers are at fault, not the PA5.

I'm struggling to hear any differences between the PA5 and the Benchmark AHB2. I can hear subtle differences between these and a DK Design VS.1 MK3/LSA Signature hybrid. The DK/LSA has a tube input stage and a monster transistor output stage. Even with Soviet Reflektor 6H23N-EB tubes, there's still a slightly 'tubey' sound. Speakers are ScanSpeak Revelator/Illuminator Zaph Audio ZRT - http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZRT.html

 

[gfinlays]

It's not clear from the questions asked whether the concern is input saturation or output clipping.

The PA5 will take at least 4.7 Vrms at the input without the input saturating based on my measurements. The output will clip based on the PA5's maximum power input into a particular load impedance. A higher input voltage just means that the output will clip before the volume knob reaches its maximum.

Probably, but clipping depends on the peaks, not on the RMS.

2.6V rms is full power - that is just below 3.7V peak. So higher peak voltages than that will start to be clipped.

 

[vkvedam]

It's not clear from the questions asked whether the concern is input saturation or output clipping.

The PA5 will take at least 4.7 Vrms at the input without the input saturating based on my measurements. The output will clip based on the PA5's maximum power input into a particular load impedance. A higher input voltage just means that the output will clip before the volume knob reaches its maximum.

I think you have pretty much answered my query. Thanks!

 

[antcollinet]

It's not clear from the questions asked whether the concern is input saturation or output clipping.

The PA5 will take at least 4.7 Vrms at the input without the input saturating based on my measurements. The output will clip based on the PA5's maximum power input into a particular load impedance. A higher input voltage just means that the output will clip before the volume knob reaches its maximum.

Thanks for the clarification. My statement applies to full volume (IE, use as a power amp, which is what the question was referring to).

 

[whazzup]

My friend constructs speakers as I do and he has several pairs at home of diy as well as original yamaha ns-1000 monitors, I wouldn't call him audiophool. He just do not like PA5, what's a big deal?

Great, a man of science. So he surely has a measuring mic to measure the speaker driver response? Some basic device to measure the crossover components? Did he do basic FR comparison between his older amp and the PA5 and find out in more details why he prefers the older amp?

Or does he believe that while speaker drivers are constructed with scientific knowledge, audio response cannot be measured with scientific equipment?

Personally I do not think it's a big deal your friend doesn't like the PA5. It seems that it's a big deal to you though, for you to bring him up here.

 

[maudio]

...
Find a well-designed speaker (benign impedance, smooth frequency response, even directionality and power response etc. etc.), drive it with quality, neutral measuring source equipment and audio Nirvana is yours.

Most of the competent DIY speaker designs out there will substantially outperform commercial designs costing an order of magnitude more. Some of the DIY designers are incredibly skilled - they produce technically superb speakers that you can listen to all day. Drive them with well-measuring source equipment and you're sorted!

No 'system synergy' (aka compensating for one flaw with another flaw) required.

I have 2-way PMC twenty.23, 87dB, 8 ohm declared, it does not drop below 6 ohm. Crossover at 1.8 kHz. Would they play with PA5?

 

[Sudin]

Review and Measurements of NAD C 320BEE PWR Amplifier

This is a review and detailed measurements of the NAD C 320BEE power (speaker) amplifier. It is on kind loan. The C 320BEE is a vintage product, dating back to 2003 I think. The BEE designation is apparently a reference to Bjorn Erik Edvardsen who was one of their designers. Can't tell if he...

audiosciencereview.com

Amir said at the conclusions : "Personally, I think 67 watts is not enough for home listening. Today's speakers have become smaller in size and shrunk in efficiency, needing fair bit of power to get them to produce proper dynamics."

Does above statement also apply to PA5 (8 Ohm speakers) ?

 

[DanielT]

Amir said at the conclusions : "Personally, I think 67 watts is not enough for home listening. Today's speakers have become smaller in size and shrunk in efficiency, needing fair bit of power to get them to produce proper dynamics."

Does above statement also apply to PA5 (8 Ohm speakers) ?

Amir: #1

Regarding power:

Then there are some that relieve PA5 by letting separately designated active subwoffers take care of the lowest frequencies. Split the signal around 80 Hz. Then the power of PA5 will last more /better for the full register speakers, when PA5 does not have to take care of the lowest frequencies, that is.

Check active speakers that have a dedicated amp for the tweeter elements. Not much power in those amplifiers, because it does not need as much power (however, quality of power is needed of course for it to sound good).
...

How much power does an amplifier need with this type of range of dynamic music

Feel free to use this calculator. Add sensitivity to the speaker and then tell which effect you have chosen and why. Weigh in that you want some headroom. http://www.mh-audio.nl/Calculators/REAP.html You can select music from this list. Or something else, but in that case tell us how you...

audiosciencereview.com

Edit:
Speaking of adding sub, this one seems exciting:

Check the new Aiyima A300 balanced amplifier out!

https://www.aiyima.com/products/amplifier-aiyima-a300-tpa3255-2-0-channel-300wx2-hifi-amplifier?variant=39670601547851 This looks good!

audiosciencereview.com

 

[gfinlays]

I have 2-way PMC twenty.23, 87dB, 8 ohm declared, it does not drop below 6 ohm. Crossover at 1.8 kHz. Would they play with PA5?

Unless you have a massive room and listen at ear-splitting levels, the PA5 should have plenty of power.

 

[IPunchCholla]

Amir said at the conclusions : "Personally, I think 67 watts is not enough for home listening. Today's speakers have become smaller in size and shrunk in efficiency, needing fair bit of power to get them to produce proper dynamics."

Does above statement also apply to PA5 (8 Ohm speakers) ?

It'll depend on the sensitivity of your speakers. I'm running my PA5 into to old Pioneer 8ohm speakers (CS-M555). I am using a Topping D10s to feed an L30 to feed the PA5. So I'm losing about 6 db from lack of balanced audio. I run the PA% full volume and use the L30 to feed it. I have my parametric eq global set to -9dB to avoid clipping (digital volume 0dB). For my listening positions, the volume on the L30 is about 1/3rd of the way to full. At that setting a 1kHZ tone at 0dB (not going through the eq), is about 2.3 V or .7 watts. That would be for the peaks. For my listening position that translates to about 85db peaks with an average of 70dB for the music. I can easily get to 90dB average with the volume up to around 75%. I don't notice any clipping. But I don't know the sensitivity of my speakers. (12inch woofer, 6 inch mid, 3 inch tweeter (guessing)).

Edit to add that I run +9dB on the L30.

 

[JohnnyNG]

My system has become rather Topping-heavy (haha) since I picked up a D90 (MQA-free version) two years ago. I'm now running that D90 (along with a phono stage) into a Pre90 through a K231 active crossover into a PA5 which powers Revel M106 crossed to a pair of subs @ 80 Hz LR4. Cables are Canare L-4E6S with a mix of XLR and TRS.

I don't have a very broad audiophile vocabulary but the PA5 sounds wonderful in this setup. Clear, smooth, detailed and open with seemingly more than enough power at 9' from the speakers. And, while the M106 are the best speakers I've ever owned, gfinlays has me drooling over those damn ZRT...