WOW!!I do not know if this will help. But posted below are my measurement graphs as measured per speaker by the trinnov’s sensitive microphone—before, after and the graphs of correction filters used
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Your least expensive option is the Monolith HTP-1 as Denon and Marantz can't even manage two independent subwoofers.
It's actually a 20 channel processor with full and sophisticated DSP control of all 20 channels. The room eq and 3d remapping is part of the cost, but it also has DSP controls similar to a mini DSP for 20 channels. It can be used to control a fully active system without an external DSP crossover which helps simplify a system and reduce the need for either digital outs (which is uncommon) or redundant AD/DA conversion and loss of sound quality in a less than SOTA DSP. Most DSP processors would not measure up to ASR standards either (This actually measures quite well).
Blocked
I am confused. The discussion here is quite cordial.
Now, on the MQA threads, many, including me, have very definite and unmistakable positions.
Honestly, I the Trinnov came a 7 channel version for under 6K, I'd be game.
Atmos is not tenable, technically nor aesthetically and has a Zero FAF rating (Family Approval Factor).
You'd be surprised how enjoyable and convincing 4 Salon2s and a Voice2 can be for HT. Music central movies like A Star is Born, Yesterday (Great flick) are amazing even in my puny 5.2 channel count system. I also appreciate Atmos remixes which are often carefully designed for surround. You might say, I have an effective set of "bed channels"
- Rich
My system requires the ability to both time-align and EQ my four subs to optimize the bass response. I do not know what other AVR/AVP units can do that. I mean that literally, I simply do not know. At the time I was looking, about two years ago, none of the major vendors would, so an outboard bass controller like a miniDSP, Anti-mode, or similar was required. I was considering a processor upgrade and fell into a good deal on an SDP-75 and haven't looked back.
LFE itself is mono, though bass management could use stereo (etc.) subs, but even for a mono sub feed I need different EQ per sub to optimize the response in my room.
YMMV - Don
Thanks for the graphs,yes it is that,but my comment is if you then make measurements with REW for example to compare vs after Trinnov,since in those Optimizer graphs the vertical axis in dB is very close together and it is notI do not know if this will help. But posted below are my measurement graphs as measured per speaker by the trinnov’s sensitive microphone—before, after and the graphs of correction filters used
View attachment 185516
My understanding is that D+M has 2 sub-out but these are not independently time aligned and treated as a single sub because they share a common internal connection so current owners are recommended to just use a Y-splitter to one single sub-out. HTP-1 on the other hand is capable of Dirac Live Bass Management currently considered one of the best bass management systems in the business.Can you elaborate on this? D+M can only time align two subs but the LFE channel is mono anyway so does it mean the HTP-1 can not only time aligned 3 subs but also EQ them independently for use with the non LFE signal?
If I am understanding correctly, you are using 4 subs on 4 different outputs and using the EQ on the processor to EQ subs, correct? I am assuming this is a manual process? One of the reasons I went with Storm is DLBC which is automated. Was it very difficult process of EQing 4 subs in this way?My system requires the ability to both time-align and EQ my four subs to optimize the bass response. I do not know what other AVR/AVP units can do that. I mean that literally, I simply do not know. At the time I was looking, about two years ago, none of the major vendors would, so an outboard bass controller like a miniDSP, Anti-mode, or similar was required. I was considering a processor upgrade and fell into a good deal on an SDP-75 and haven't looked back.
LFE itself is mono, though bass management could use stereo (etc.) subs, but even for a mono sub feed I need different EQ per sub to optimize the response in my room.
YMMV - Don
I think the Storm, JBL/Arcam, and HTP-1 units are the only one’s available that offer DLBC on more than 2 sub outputs. I remember reading that Trinnov is working on solving the multiple independent subwoofer issue in their optimizer, but I haven’t seen an estimate on when it will be available. We can assume, based upon their track record, that they will do it well, though, I would guess.If I am understanding correctly, you are using 4 subs on 4 different outputs and using the EQ on the processor to EQ subs, correct? I am assuming this is a manual process? One of the reasons I went with Storm is DLBC which is automated. Was it very difficult process of EQing 4 subs in this way?
The Trinnov Optimizer handles all four subs on separate (independent) channels. So, it is automated, piece of cake.If I am understanding correctly, you are using 4 subs on 4 different outputs and using the EQ on the processor to EQ subs, correct? I am assuming this is a manual process? One of the reasons I went with Storm is DLBC which is automated. Was it very difficult process of EQing 4 subs in this way?
My understanding is that D+M has 2 sub-out but these are not independently time aligned and treated as a single sub because they share a common internal connection so current owners are recommended to just use a Y-splitter to one single sub-out. HTP-1 on the other hand is capable of Dirac Live Bass Management currently considered one of the best bass management systems in the business.
It handles all 4 subs on separate independent channels, but it doesn’t optimize the overall response of the 4 subs - at least to my understanding which I admit may be lacking.The Trinnov Optimizer handles all four subs on separate (independent) channels. So, it is automated, piece of cake.
For the SDP-75 I also have the option of using Harman's Sound Field Management (SFM) but I have not done that yet.
My previous AVP, Emotiva XMC-1, would handle two independent subs (delay and crossover in the processor itself plus Dirac Live would handle them independently). I set them up as two pair (I have a pair in the rear and another in the front) so I did not add an outboard unit. However, my room is not symmetric, so being able to do each sub independently is a Good Thing for me.
Trinnov also provides very flexible bass management. For example, you can set up the subs to be paired with nearby speakers if you want stereo (or more), and you can set multiple crossovers for a group of speakers. The latter means you can route the bass from say a smallish left overhead or wide speaker below 100 Hz to the left main (base) speaker, and then route the bass from that speaker (which now includes bass from the smaller speaker) below 80 Hz to a sub.
HTH - Don
our host is using a measurement system that delivers better than most anechoic chambers in a normal room. He then listens in his room. That’s what you see.When our host measures speakers in his room do you see any treatments anywhere? Unless I just don’t see them I don’t think they’re there, and I’m not criticizing because I want to learn as much as I can.
it optimises the overall response in the room.It handles all 4 subs on separate independent channels, but it doesn’t optimize the overall response of the 4 subs - at least to my understanding which I admit may be lacking.
our host is using a measurement system that delivers better than most anechoic chambers in a normal room. He then listens in his room. That’s what you see.
My bad, thanks for the correction!Okay thank you for clarifying your point. In that case your understanding is incorrect. D+M's from the AVR-X3700H, SR6015 through the higher models have two sub outs that are independent in the sense that each has their own volume control and DAC. They have the Sub EQ HT feature that will level match and time align the two subwoofer outputs, as described in the Owner's manual:
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Is that your stance, that the room I see the measurements done in is better than an anechoic chamber?
You’re kidding right?
Here’s what I think, if some of the reflection points were treated it would make room correction a whole lot easier.