Erin's review for the March Audio Sointuva

[witwald]

I honestly hope they don't bring the HF down more than 1 or 2 dB.

2dB is probably all it needs to bring it back to neutral and non-fatiguing on reasonable recordings.

I think it would be a mistake to do more, because the slight rise in on-axis sound is compensating for the narrowing of the dispersion.

Adding some sort of "compensation" in the on-axis response for "narrowing dispersion" seems like a recipe for disaster. Creating a new problem, which this approach does, to ostensibly "fix" another problem, does not seem to be a viable long-term, recording-agnostic approach to take. It would be better to just have a flat on axis response and do the best possible with the rest.

I have personally been in the position where a measurement error forced me to make a better design decision than I would have if the measurement had been accurate.

Can you elaborate some more on how the "error" fixed a "problem"?

 

[witwald]

The direct response dominates timbre at high frequencies, much more than the "room".

I think that this is what most people find, although they may not always "like" what they hear with their choice of test material.

I'd expect this to be bright on axis.

Agreed.

 

[voodooless]

I agree with this.

The options and finishes (at this stage) appear unlimited as long as the buyer pays for it. Like Wilson will paint your speakers to match your Lamborghini if you want.

It doesn’t solve all problems though. That hideous Purify contraption still sticks out like a sore thumb . A Mini is still a Mini, no amount of paint can hide that. You either like it, or not.

 

[Vuki]

@hardisj why in your reviews there is no in-room response published any more?

 

[witwald]

And I now I totally understand manufacturers when nerds like me ask
“Where are all the graphs”

And they say “well, people don’t understand all the data anyway”

In comparison, do we understand the marketing prose that likely comes our way, let alone various reviewers' subjective "golden eared" assessments without any measurements? The manufacturers that don't provide any measurements are doing the consumer a great disservice. If manufacturer's could provide data such as is shown below back in the 1970s,

then why don't they do it now?

Not everyone is a trained engineer and can decipher all the data.

That ignores that fact that we can learn—so that we can make better purchasing decisions.

 

[restorer-john]

@hardisj why in your reviews there is no in-room response published any more?

His wife has kicked him out of the loungeroom. It has to be an 'in-garage' response now.

 

[Holmz]

It doesn’t solve all problems though. That hideous Purify contraption still sticks out like a sore thumb . A Mini is still a Mini, no amount of paint can hide that. You either like it, or not.

I am not sure anyone else making the pretty drivers have as low of distortion as the Purifi ones though?

So if one has a goal of using more linear drivers, and lower distortion driver, then there are not a lot of options.

• The Accuton is pretty low from memory
• The ScanSpeak wu18 was also low
• The Vandersteen carbon sandwich pistonic driver is not really available as a raw driver.

It almost sounds like you are saying that the driver‘s sound doesn’t matter as much as the looks?
or…
That the boxes are too small?

Or am I missing the point? (Which happens sometimes…)

 

[sigbergaudio]

Are these speakers designed to be listened to on-axis? The lift beyond 10khz is a little high, but the listening window is pretty flat. I suspect if these speakers are placed with zero toe in, the response in the listening position would probably be pretty close to flat.

For reference our SBS.1 speakers (0-15-30 degrees), we have a slight lift above 4khz as well (less pronounced I guess). This doesn't seem harsh or fatiguing at all (designed for zero toe in). I suspect the March Audio speaker doesn't either, even though it could probably be taken down a notch above 10khz.

 

[voodooless]

I am not sure anyone else making the pretty drivers have as low of distortion as the Purifi ones though?

Not in that size category.

So if one has a goal of using more linear drivers, and lower distortion driver, then there are not a lot of options.

• The Accuton is pretty low from memory
• The ScanSpeak wu18 was also low
• The Vandersteen carbon sandwich pistonic driver is not really available as a raw driver.

Some PA drivers will also offer very low distortion if you can go up to 10”. Also, with the D&D, we’ve seen how relatively (un)important distortion is.

It almost sounds like you are saying that the driver‘s sound doesn’t matter as much as the looks?
or…
That the boxes are too small?

The Mini can still be a very good car, regardless how you think it looks. If you want one in your driveway is another matter. In the end it’s a trade-off everyone needs to make for themselves (or together with better half ). For me, that thing is visually definitely a no-no. I also think it’s too expensive anyway, even though performance it top-notch.

 

[Frank Dernie]

For me, that thing is visually definitely a no-no.

This is important for a domestic speaker one has to live with.

It has ruled out Genelec "ones" for me but I could still live with the somewhat odd looking Geithian 901 if in a burr wood veneer but, in the end, I have just decided to stick with what I have. Nothing about my current system causes any loss of musical enjoyment and I am used to the look of all of it.

 

[abdo123]

@napilopez @jhaider

If we look at the ‘perfect’ 9.6/10 speaker we can see indeed that constant directivity will be punished.

But at the same time the sloping down of the response is a mere -5 dB at 20KHz, it’s not as extreme as most people think it should be.

So I don’t see how a wide directivity speaker will be punished. Arguments can be made though about narrow directivity speakers as they will either slope too steeply at the baffle step or at high frequencies.

The sointuva has almost perfect slope, which is why I don’t think needs to be tuned any differently. Which is why it’s kind of sad to hear from @hardisj that the tuning will be changed for absolutely no reason.

 

[Holmz]

Not in that size category.

Some PA drivers will also offer very low distortion if you can go up to 10”. Also, with the D&D, we’ve seen how relatively (un)important distortion is.

The Mini can still be a very good car, regardless how you think it looks. If you want one in your driveway is another matter. In the end it’s a trade-off everyone needs to make for themselves (or together with better half ). For me, that thing is visually definitely a no-no. I also think it’s to expensive anyway, even though performance it top-notch.

Thanks for the clarification.

Have a larger than normal and smaller than normal vehicle you mini reference makes sense.
(The big one is hard to manoeuvre around town, and the small one is difficult to carry boards in the back of… or almost any luggage.)

As per the avatar photo, the SO is not overly compassionate about having those in the lounge room.
The only family members that liked them where the kiddies when they were little, as liked it when they got to dance to “The big CDs.”

So maybe the wood ones would be more tolerable for her?

 

[voodooless]

Have a larger than normal and smaller than normal vehicle you mini reference makes sense.

That honor goes to @restorer-john I just ran with it.

 

[thewas]

What I would love to see would be a controlled listening test with many listeners with 2 loudspeakers using the same drivers and equalised to the same flat LW, where one has a continuously increasing directivity to the higher frequencies and the other a rather constant directivity waveguide having the typical kink in the off-axis curves.

 

[Matias]

Are these speakers designed to be listened to on-axis? The lift beyond 10khz is a little high, but the listening window is pretty flat. I suspect if these speakers are placed with zero toe in, the response in the listening position would probably be pretty close to flat.

For reference our SBS.1 speakers (0-15-30 degrees), we have a slight lift above 4khz as well (less pronounced I guess). This doesn't seem harsh or fatiguing at all (designed for zero toe in). I suspect the March Audio speaker doesn't either, even though it could probably be taken down a notch above 10khz.

View attachment 177504

Send yours to Erin too!! @hardisj

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who finds a Genelec aesthetically preferable to this speaker has just failed his Turing test...

Edit: Seriously, I would love to ser pictures of a finish in Jarrah wood

 

[tomtoo]

To clarify, I'm not dismissing subjective reviews. Merely, when you used the word "prominent", I understand you mean "famous" as the definition is such. But that tends to also imply famous for good reasons... and some may take that to mean these people can hear things to the degree that they should be held on a pedestal. To which I would obviously disagree (and very likely that is not what you meant, I'm sure).

Aside from that, as I've been in contact with various companies over the last year I have found a lot of 'dirt' about other reviewers. Nothing I can say publicly, unfortunately. And luckily there are only a few bad apples. The majority of them are good, genuine folks doing what they believe is best for their audience. But some of these dudes are complete douchenozzles based on the stories the manufacturers have told me. That's why I don't really give a rip about *some of* these "prominent" reviewers. /rant

Just forget that word. Iam german, and maybe i missused it in english. Just meant other reviewers that are known.

 

[restorer-john]

I'm going to put it out there. I reckon these speakers are likely going to be fabulous after March trims the HF response a touch and tweaks the Xover slightly. To think he won't use @hardisj 's work to make his product slightly better would be foolish. Of course he will.

Then, they will be a really interesting speaker, albeit expensive and somewhat inefficient. Considering the low cost of amplifier power these days, it's not really a massive downside.

I wish him the best with the Sointuva.

 

[JJB70]

Nice to see March has pulled it off with these and backed up his words with a product that lives up to his claims. I can live with people who are a bit full of themselves but who deliver, it is people making big claims who don't (or can't) deliver that annoy me.

 

[abdo123]

I'm going to put it out there. I reckon these speakers are likely going to be fabulous after March trims the HF response a touch and tweaks the Xover slightly. To think he won't use @hardisj 's work to make his product slightly better would be foolish. Of course he will.

Then, they will be a really interesting speaker, albeit expensive and somewhat inefficient. Considering the low cost of amplifier power these days, it's not really a massive downside.

I wish him the best with the Sointuva.

This is already post revision, Erin worked quite a bit with March Audio to get it this good.

I think anything different would be a regression imo.