A $15k music streamer reviewed on stereophile

[_thelaughingman]

I actually own (or have owned) the equipment. Have you even listened to it? Data is only useful for the design stage not the end result of what your brain processes. You have data for my brain you can point me to? Your brain is the end recipient so data means almost nothing to most actual audiophiles.

You are trying to make sense, using data, of something we don't completely understand and can NOT measure. You can take your data...Listen to the device, properly set up and then come back and respond. Until then, your measurements don't make you correct.

Another paid shill that has no idea what he's hearing, oh wait do you even hear correctly. looks to me like you only like hearing yourself talk.

 

[Kevinfc]

Wonder how many of these Magic Beans they’ll sell?

 

[Inner Space]

I actually own (or have owned) the equipment. Have you even listened to it? Data is only useful for the design stage not the end result of what your brain processes. You have data for my brain you can point me to?

Yes, we have a huge amount of data about your brain. It's the same as anyone else's - fatally subject to bias and delusion. The truth is that if you didn't know which was which beforehand, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between your MacMini, your Nucleus, or your "higher end" Antipodes or Pin Faun. I say that not as speculation, but as a cast-iron fact. You're fooling yourself, which is fine and all, but don't waste our time with your nonsense. Tip: "blown away" is always a tell.

 

[ahofer]

I've read alot of forums over the years but this one takes the cake for THE MOST speculative collection of opinions I've ever seen. I can tell you having been in hifi for over 20 years I wasn't a believer until I bought some servers into my system and listened. From a MacMini, to a Nucleus, all the way up to the higher end stuff like Antipodes and Pin Faun. They make a PROFOUND difference. I was completely blown away with what it did to my DAC (MSB), and how much better everything sounded.

You can have all the fun you want speculating and rationalizing and poking fun at those who are willing to spend the high price for these things but until you listen and test for yourself (with an ear, not a measurement) its just that, fun (for you) and speculative opinion.

This is the exact opposite of a rational, evidence-based, conclusion.

Until it is verified in a controlled environment, those improvements are entirely speculative.

 

[PatentLawyer]

I actually own (or have owned) the equipment. Have you even listened to it? Data is only useful for the design stage not the end result of what your brain processes. You have data for my brain you can point me to? Your brain is the end recipient so data means almost nothing to most actual audiophiles.

You are trying to make sense, using data, of something we don't completely understand and can NOT measure. You can take your data...Listen to the device, properly set up and then come back and respond. Until then, your measurements don't make you correct.

I have had the same Kool Aid. In the system that I don’t discuss here, I use an expensive “high end” streamer. And everything else in that system is correspondingly “high end.” Alas, bits are bits are bits.

 

[jammer]

Another paid shill that has no idea what he's hearing, oh wait do you even hear correctly. looks to me like you only like hearing yourself talk.

Lol, rationalize much? Paid, not, paid FOR IT yes. The entire approach here is inherently flawed unless you are designing. To take it to the level of giving opinion on something you HAVE NOT listened to, and not accounting for set up, other pieces of equipment and room acoustics, it's all drivel. Meaningless geeky, drivel that should not be taken as the only reason you decide to purchase a piece of equipment.

You're right though I did step into some sh*t and my policy in life is never argue with an idiot because they will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Lata!

 

[Firefly00]

I've read alot of forums over the years but this one takes the cake for THE MOST speculative collection of opinions I've ever seen. I can tell you having been in hifi for over 20 years I wasn't a believer until I bought some servers into my system and listened. From a MacMini, to a Nucleus, all the way up to the higher end stuff like Antipodes and Pin Faun. They make a PROFOUND difference. I was completely blown away with what it did to my DAC (MSB), and how much better everything sounded.

You can have all the fun you want speculating and rationalizing and poking fun at those who are willing to spend the high price for these things but until you listen and test for yourself (with an ear, not a measurement) its just that, fun (for you) and speculative opinion.

Just because you said it sounds better doesn’t make it true. If it is a “profound difference“ to the ear, it should be blindingly obvious on your measurements too...which you definitely took….?

right?

 

[Doodski]

You are trying to make sense, using data, of something we don't completely understand and can NOT measure.

Electrical energy can be calculated to a instantaneous value for both AC and DC circuits. There is no mystique or voodoo in audio electronics. We can measure down to tiny tiny differences and we understand those measurements as well as the circuitry and how it works. This has all been reality for many decades. Unless you know something we don't about this lack of understanding and inability to measure then I don't see how you can take such a position.

 

[BDWoody]

I actually own (or have owned) the equipment.

Well, people don't usually join to whine this much unless they do. It can be sad to watch the reactions... Tends to follow a predictable path.

 

[antcollinet]

I've read alot of forums over the years but this one takes the cake for THE MOST speculative collection of opinions I've ever seen. I can tell you having been in hifi for over 20 years I wasn't a believer until I bought some servers into my system and listened. From a MacMini, to a Nucleus, all the way up to the higher end stuff like Antipodes and Pin Faun. They make a PROFOUND difference. I was completely blown away with what it did to my DAC (MSB), and how much better everything sounded.

You can have all the fun you want speculating and rationalizing and poking fun at those who are willing to spend the high price for these things but until you listen and test for yourself (with an ear, not a measurement) its just that, fun (for you) and speculative opinion.

The only difference you heard was either some of them were poorly designed, or it was entirely in the wetware between your ears. I don't know how many times it needs to be said. Audio frequencies are trivially easy to measure. There is nothing you can hear in the actual sound waves that can't be measured. On the other hand it is clearly demonstrated that what you percieve you hear can be influenced by what you know - or think you know - about what you are listening to.

 

[Geert]

my policy in life is never argue with an idiot because they will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I can tell you having been in hifi for over 20 years I wasn't a believer

 

[Kevinfc]

The only reason I can give that this device could be perceived as being worthy of it’s high price is that it’s superior in not yet discovered metric which influences hearing.
That’s the most generous interpretation, all others land in the snake oil realm.

 

[Madjalapeno]

You're right though I did step into some sh*t and my policy in life is never argue with an idiot because they will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Lata!

Bye. Miss you already.

Anyway, back in the real world ...

 

[ahofer]

The only reason I can give that this device could be perceived as being worthy of it’s high price is that it’s superior in not yet discovered metric which influences hearing.
That’s the most generous interpretation, all others land in the snake oil realm.

My assumption is that if they *could* prove an audible difference of that sort, they *would*. It would be a huge and important discovery worth claiming.

 

[antcollinet]

The only reason I can give that this device could be perceived as being worthy of it’s high price is that it’s superior in not yet discovered metric which influences hearing.
That’s the most generous interpretation, all others land in the snake oil realm.

Really?

If it is an "undiscovered metric", how do they design it in to their overpriced snake oil? Why does it result in such high prices if they don't even know how they are achieving it?

You don't design good audio kit by guesswork.

 

[sq225917]

All these companies producing magic beans, just think of the marketing advantage they would have against all comers if they could actually point to a measurable improvement that correlated to performance.

 

[Larry B. Larabee]

The reviewer likes MQA, too

 

[ahofer]

Lol, rationalize much? Paid, not, paid FOR IT yes. The entire approach here is inherently flawed unless you are designing. To take it to the level of giving opinion on something you HAVE NOT listened to, and not accounting for set up, other pieces of equipment and room acoustics, it's all drivel. Meaningless geeky, drivel that should not be taken as the only reason you decide to purchase a piece of equipment.

You're right though I did step into some sh*t and my policy in life is never argue with an idiot because they will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Lata!

Are you a teenager?

I presume you will go over to Audiogon or somewhere and complain about what a hostile place this is, but I'd encourage you to re-read your initial post. You came to fight - on your first day. You got exactly what you asked for.

Your views and your 'experience' have no grounding in real evidence, but that's beside the point. You were intentionally provocative and unpleasant on your first day. ASR trolling wouldn't be the same without empty puffery like yours. This Bud's for you!

 

[voodooless]

The entire approach here is inherently flawed unless you are designing. To take it to the level of giving opinion on something you HAVE NOT listened to,

Hitchens razor applies here: “What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”

That goes for both your observations as well as the claims made by the manufacturer. If there was ever a pile of drivel…

and not accounting for set up, other pieces of equipment and room acoustics, it's all drivel.

How does this particular equipment influence room acoustics? And a properly designed DAC should also not be influenced by the source interface, as Amir has shown countless times already.

Sending bits over an interface is no magic. It’s has been a solved problem for decades now.

Meaningless geeky, drivel that should not be taken as the only reason you decide to purchase a piece of equipment.

Nobody ever said it should be the only criterion.

The only actual thing these companies need to do is make you think they use advanced technology. No proof is needed, nor asked apparently…baffling!

 

[Larry B. Larabee]

Do we have any measurements yet. If someone says it sounds good what's so hard to believe about that.
If it does measure well and everyone is convinced that this is the only criteria that matters the price won't make any difference 'objectively speaking'. If it measures either well or poorly and sounds like shit, it's a piece of shit.
You guys are just being single-minded ass-holes not making any valid arguments and always deliberately understating
any opinion based on the only thing that matters in this business, LISTENING to music. Leave the guy alone.