Worst measuring loudspeaker?

[Arindal]

audiophiles love rehashing terrible things we left behind and present them as some groundbreaking achievement

Understood you correctly. I just don't think that field coils are a terrible thing per se. When Focal reintroduced that in 2008, they said some pretty reasonable things about magnets and motor properties. Just the practical results were not really keeping up with what they had promised, and one might seriously question if the necessary investment and production cost is worth the results.

 

[ttimer]

Not that new maybe...

View attachment 462434

Focal seemingly revived the concept in 2008.

Maybe I’m giving too much credit to Focal here, but it could have been a weight saving decision. The speakers are over half a ton for the pair already. Much more, and building statics start limiting the customer base. Permanent magnets for 40cm woofers are quite heavy.

 

[dfuller]

Well folks, we've got a new contender: The Zu Audio Method.

 

[Purité Audio]

Pleased to see Zu maintaining standards.
Keith

 

[MattHooper]

Well folks, we've got a new contender: The Zu Audio Method.

View attachment 468165

19dB dip! Whew!

Erin doesn’t hold back!

 

[MKR]

How is Zu even still in business putting out garbage like this? They only sell to those with hearing impairments? That is horrific FR

 

[Purité Audio]

How is Zu even still in business putting out garbage like this? They only sell to those with hearing impairments? That is horrific FR

The vast majority don’t understand loudspeaker measurements for them buying a loudspeaker is literally ‘lucky dip’.
I am sure they will get a fantastic subjective review from some old codger on Stereophile and hey presto.
Keith

 

[Soniclife]

Below 1KHz and above look like 2 completely different speakers.

 

[Ktacos]

How is Zu even still in business putting out garbage like this? They only sell to those with hearing impairments? That is horrific FR

Some people have money but no brains.

Pleased to see Zu maintaining standards.
Keith

That gave me good chuckle.

 

[MattHooper]

Some people have money but no brains.

It’s one thing for those of us here to adopt certain measurement criteria to guide our own purchases.

I don’t think it’s a great look to use it to denigrate the choices of other audiophiles who like something different,

When it comes to loudspeakers, there’s all sorts of factors that can lead to somebody’s personal choice. As I’ve noted in previous threads.: Not all Zu owners just mindlessly purchase their speakers. Plenty of owners have been audiophiles for a long time, have heard a wide variety of loudspeakers, have also owned many loudspeakers against which they are comparing Zu, and in the end they preferred how their music sounded through their Zu speakers.

If their Zu purchase has led them to great satisfaction, listening to their favourite music through those speakers (and enjoying the aesthetics), it doesn’t mean they “have no brains.” They’ve made a successful purchase.

 

[MKR]

It’s one thing for those of us here to adopt certain measurement criteria to guide our own purchases.

I don’t think it’s a great look to use it to denigrate the choices of other audiophiles who like something different,

When it comes to loudspeakers, there’s all sorts of factors that can lead to somebody’s personal choice. As I’ve noted in previous threads.: Not all Zu owners just mindlessly purchase their speakers. Plenty of owners have been audiophiles for a long time, have heard a wide variety of loudspeakers, have also owned many loudspeakers against which they are comparing Zu, and in the end they preferred how their music sounded through their Zu speakers.

If their Zu purchase has led them to great satisfaction, listening to their favourite music through those speakers (and enjoying the aesthetics), it doesn’t mean they “have no brains.” They’ve made a successful purchase.

A very fair observation and point well taken. In the end it’s about what we enjoy and provides personal satisfaction … as long as Zu owners don’t claim their speakers provide the most accurate presentation of the recording then we are good

 

[Arindal]

19dB dip! Whew!

It is solely on axis, which brings me to the conclusion that around 6.5K probably the outer part of the cone is moving out-of-phase from the inner one. Pretty typical behavior of a lightweight, low-damped paper 8" or 10" prone to breakup.

Maybe we should take it as an example of how important competent crossover design is. This graph clearly calls for a steep low-pass filter not higher than 2.5K or 3K. Instead they seem to use the midwoofer cone fullrange.

How is Zu even still in business putting out garbage like this? They only sell to those with hearing impairments? That is horrific FR

Whether we accept it or not, there is a whole scene of people who are not interested in tonal accuracy but claim to prioritize dynamic, impulsive and direct-sounding speakers. Most of 8"+ fullrange cone speakers (Lowther may be the most prominent example) don't really look better than this Zu. Their trick seems to be just adding a tweeter to the typical fullrange sound.

 

[Newman]

How is Zu even still in business putting out garbage like this? They only sell to those with hearing impairments? That is horrific FR

It's the power of ideas.

• The idea that a single drive unit putting out all the music is ideal.
• The idea that it will be more point source than spatially separated drive units.
• The idea that the absence of a crossover, especially where the ear is most sensitive, will be more transparent than a crossover.
• The idea that the sound will be more consistent from low to high frequencies.
• The idea that simplicity is a virtue and this will somehow translate into the sonic character.
• The idea that dynamics is a function of efficiency and is also lost when you filter out audio eg flatten the drive unit's 'natural' frequency response.
• The idea that phase and time coherence is critical to perceptions of sound space.

Drink all that Kool Aid and you start to fashion a mental concept of how great it will sound, and when you get to hear it, sighted, you will hear what you have told yourself to hear, courtesy of the sighted listening effect.

Here is some Kool Aid direct from the company website for you to imbibe:

"Decades ago, loudspeaker development had fractured into two basic camps: the “dynamics or bust” camp and the “measure flat or don’t bother me” camp. To realize that these camps are married to the overall dynamic behavior of a loudspeaker system is essential for the progress of loudspeakers. Further, to know that dynamic range is a fundamental characteristic, one that cannot be improved through signal manipulation will result in a loudspeaker that better serves music. While signal manipulation can correct for loudspeaker dynamic behavior errors in both time and bandwidth, it is at the expense of overall dynamic range and in varying degrees, resolution, stereophonic recreation and intimacy. Many other parameters must be considered but truly emotional playback is best accomplished through very high efficiency loudspeakers—with a capacity for the broadest dynamic range, wide-band linear dynamic behavior and capable of digging down to at least the second octave of the audible scale. Engineering of a fundamentally correct transducer combined with an enclosure that will not hinder its performance provides many benefits.

"Amplitude non-linearity must also be resolved in the transducer as crossover and filter networks impinge significantly on the intelligence of the signal. The loudspeaker engineer must consider every element and design to resolve the smallest transient, preserve phase coherence and time integrity for convincing presentation of sound-spaces, strive for natural frequency balance in typical living rooms, propagate bass impact with surface area and efficiency rather than excursion and package all these qualities beautifully in products that can be used and appreciated in normal homes."

Got it? It's easy for the consumer audiophile to accept the notion that, sensibly assuming you cannot perfectly reproduce the sound from the performers in your living room, then sound reproduction becomes an aesthetic choice, where we each adopt our audio philosophy by looking into ourselves and understanding what our true priorities are, then pursuing audio gear that best delivers on that. Sounds perfectly logical, right? Let's go! Allow me to introduce you to the deep philosophers at Zu Audio.

The fact that experimental evidence is clear that, when you introduce a speaker with the above FR into a controlled listening test and compare with speakers with flat FRs, it will be very poorly rated for sound quality, is completely ignored.

cheers

 

[RexrothPigeon]

It's the power of ideas.

• The idea that a single drive unit putting out all the music is ideal.
• The idea that it will be more point source than spatially separated drive units.
• The idea that the absence of a crossover, especially where the ear is most sensitive, will be more transparent than a crossover.
• The idea that the sound will be more consistent from low to high frequencies.
• The idea that simplicity is a virtue and this will somehow translate into the sonic character.
• The idea that dynamics is a function of efficiency and is also lost when you filter out audio eg flatten the drive unit's 'natural' frequency response.
• The idea that phase and time coherence is critical to perceptions of sound space.

Yes, the reliance on logic/reason alone, with no recourse to empiricism at all (aside from sighted listening in some cases). The same archaic approach to thought that led Aristotle to claim that, since men are larger than women, we therefore have more teeth than our sisters.

 

[Mart68]

It’s one thing for those of us here to adopt certain measurement criteria to guide our own purchases.

I don’t think it’s a great look to use it to denigrate the choices of other audiophiles who like something different,

When it comes to loudspeakers, there’s all sorts of factors that can lead to somebody’s personal choice. As I’ve noted in previous threads.: Not all Zu owners just mindlessly purchase their speakers. Plenty of owners have been audiophiles for a long time, have heard a wide variety of loudspeakers, have also owned many loudspeakers against which they are comparing Zu, and in the end they preferred how their music sounded through their Zu speakers.

If their Zu purchase has led them to great satisfaction, listening to their favourite music through those speakers (and enjoying the aesthetics), it doesn’t mean they “have no brains.” They’ve made a successful purchase.

Except when, like me, you actually know someone who was taken in by their marketing and is now stuck with expensive speakers he doesn't like.

Then it's all a bit more real as to why there should at least be some public pushback, if only to show there's two sides to the story for any prospective buyer.

 

[Purité Audio]

Only education will address the situation, once everyone understands loudspeaker measurements and what is necessary for a transparent design then the situation will change.
If you read any ( other ) forum you will see that loudspeaker choice for many is no more than a ‘lucky dip’.
Keith

 

[MattHooper]

Then it's all a bit more real as to why there should at least be some public pushback, if only to show there's two sides to the story for any prospective buyer.

I totally agree about public pushback! Just like I love to see Amir bring all sorts of bogus manufacturer claims to light in his videos. I also appreciate it when manufacturer specs are revealed to be misleading or exaggerated. And I absolutely appreciate what Erin brought to this review as well. When manufacturers make certain claims for their designs ideally I would like to see those claims put to independent tests. (Stereophile measurements have been undermining plenty of manufacturer claims for ages ). So the more information the merrier.

I was only remarking on using information as a platform to call other audiophiles dumb.
(of course… not that all audiophiles are brilliant and rational… but I think at our best we do not take our knowledge as an excuse to go ad hominem on other audiophiles for their speaker choices)

 

[Mart68]

I was only remarking on using information as a platform to call other audiophiles dumb.
(of course… not that all audiophiles are brilliant and rational… but I think at our best we do not take our knowledge as an excuse to go ad hominem on other audiophiles for their speaker choices)

Agreed. That accomplishes nothing - counter productive in fact.

 

[Subwaffler]

As i mentioned in the Zu thread, the new standmounter from Borrensen Audio seems to belong in this thread judging by the latest HiFi News review.

 

[Soniclife]

As i mentioned in the Zu thread, the new standmounter from Borrensen Audio seems to belong in this thread judging by the latest HiFi News review.

I'm confident all Zu and Borrensen belong in this thread, only a lack of measurements are keeping them out.