woofer to tweeter crossover

[patq2]

I always wanted to try make 10 inch woofer crossover directly to the tweeters now that I try that I prefer 10 inch over 5 inch the 10 inch is stronger then 5 inch in every way. yeah! my tweeters is more difficult to hear though. the Young Jeezy Air forces vocals S sounds like an F sound with the 10 inch but the woman vocals on the memory remains metallica song is a lot more pronounced I can hear the woman breathing on the 10 inch that doesn’t happen with the 5 inch!.

 

[mhardy6647]

Well...
What 10 inch woofer?

Back in the old days, with appropriate drivers, it wasn't even all that uncommon to see two-way loudspeakers with a 10 inch woofer and a surprisingly small tweeter.

A couple of nontrivial examples:
Acoustic Research AR-14

AVID 102

(borrowed image from https://holthill.com/products/avid-corporation-102-loudspeakers-vintage-like-new -- but I have a pair in the basement)

"Original Large Advent" and its low-rent cousin the "Utility Advent" (shown below) and KLH Six (shown below the Advent), both of which had nominally even larger woofers.

sorry that the woofer surround on this particular Utility Advent hasn't been replaced!



Tricks were used (e.g., Henry Kloss liked cone tweeters with large hemispherical dust caps. The two 'features' together extended the drivers' useful frequency response at both ends of the spectrum) and prices were paid (odd directivity/dispersion patterns and/or crossover points that compromised the tweeters' power handling) -- but there've been a number, probably a couple of dozen, perfectly listenable loudspeakers with such a configuration.

The choice of drivers (edit: and crossover point and crossover topology) was then, and will be for you now, critical.
But, yeah, it isn't utterly unfeasible.

 

[mhardy6647]

Oh.
I forgot the most famous example of all -- the Dynaco A-25 and its kin.
If not the single largest-selling loudspeaker model of all time, certainly one of the largest-selling to date.
Excellent and well behaved drivers (sourced from either ScanSpeak or SEAS over the years) and very simple design. Very pleasant loudspeakers to listen to, then and now.



There's a modern implementation using current production SEAS drivers and called the "A26" which is available as a kit -- but not inexpensively.

Seas A26 10" 2-way Kit Pair (based on the classic A25)

Seas A26 10" 2-way Kit Pair - a new spin on a true classic! Price is for a PAIR Designed by Håvard Sollien & Diego Ivars at the SEAS R&D laboratory. Seas of Norway and Madisound are excited to provide the A26 speaker kit. This kit utilizes the A26RE4 10" classic paper cone woofer and new...

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

 

[DVDdoug]

Exactly what are you doing? Modifying an existing speaker? Building a speaker? What's your question?

I'd agree that "bigger is better" (usually) and I don't really consider anything less than 8-inches to be a "woofer", and certainly not a subwoofer. (I'm an old-school big-speaker snob!)

I always wanted to try make 10 inch woofer crossover directly to the tweeters

What? Do you have a crossover now? Or at-least a capacitor to block the bass from the tweeter?

Lots of considerations...

When you "randomly" change a driver it usually has more or less output and that messes-up the "balance" between the woofer & tweeter.

Typically, a bigger woofer doesn't go as high in frequency so there may be a gap between the woofer & tweeter. But they vary all over the place so that's not always the case and it depends on the crossover frequency.

They make "full range" drivers and that may work better as a woofer in a 2-way system with a 10-inch woofer.

Usually when woofers get bigger than 8-inches, you'll see a 3-way design.

If you lower the crossover frequency, of course the tweeter has to cover a lower-frequency range (which it may, or may not, be capable of. And when you lower the crossover point, the tweeter has to handle more power.

In a properly designed speaker, the box is "tuned" to match the woofer. Any time you change a woofer it's going to change how it interacts with the box. (Ported speakers are more critical than sealed boxes.) A larger driver usually needs a larger box or else-the tuning/resonance goes-up and the bass rolls-off more (or more steeply).

 

[Matt_Holland]

Use one of these: Sica coaxial

The key is a low crossover frequency, like 1-1.5KHz.

 

[mhardy6647]

source: https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Catalogs/Lafayette-Catalogs/Lafayette-1970-700.pdf

There's a vintage test of the A-25 on pp 38 and 40 of

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-HiFI-Stereo/60s/HiFi-Stereo-Review-1969-06.pdf

Yes, of course, @DVDdoug is correct, but, in terms of the OP, @patq2, you've gotta crawl before you walk.
Knowing what woofer he's enamored of will help with the details -- assuming it's a popular enough model to allow "us" to find information on its sensitivity, frequency response, and - of course, ideally - Thiele/Small (T/S) parameters.

 

[Penelinfi]

Can potentially use a small full range like peerless 830970, mark audio 40 or 50mm. Might be low sensitivity however.
I had a wharfedale Melton once they actually sounded fairly nice at the time. Didn't have it for an extended period

 

[patq2]

Use one of these: Sica coaxial

The key is a low crossover frequency, like 1-1.5KHz.

my Skar VX35-ST tweeters crossover frequency is 1970 hertz so I I install the low pass filter of 1970 hertz to my monolith M10 V2 10 inch woofer works perfectly

 

[patq2]

Well...
What 10 inch woofer?

Back in the old days, with appropriate drivers, it wasn't even all that uncommon to see two-way loudspeakers with a 10 inch woofer and a surprisingly small tweeter.

A couple of nontrivial examples:
Acoustic Research AR-14

View attachment 341487

AVID 102

View attachment 341488
(borrowed image from https://holthill.com/products/avid-corporation-102-loudspeakers-vintage-like-new -- but I have a pair in the basement)

"Original Large Advent" and its low-rent cousin the "Utility Advent" (shown below) and KLH Six (shown below the Advent), both of which had nominally even larger woofers.

View attachment 341492
sorry that the woofer surround on this particular Utility Advent hasn't been replaced!



Tricks were used (e.g., Henry Kloss liked cone tweeters with large hemispherical dust caps. The two 'features' together extended the drivers' useful frequency response at both ends of the spectrum) and prices were paid (odd directivity/dispersion patterns and/or crossover points that compromised the tweeters' power handling) -- but there've been a number, probably a couple of dozen, perfectly listenable loudspeakers with such a configuration.

The choice of drivers (edit: and crossover point and crossover topology) was then, and will be for you now, critical.
But, yeah, it isn't utterly unfeasible.

my 10 inch woofer is the monolith M10 V2

 

[ModDIY]

my 10 inch woofer is the monolith M10 V2

Its a subwoofer ???

 

[Matt_Holland]

my Skar VX35-ST tweeters crossover frequency is 1970 hertz so I I install the low pass filter of 1970 hertz to my monolith M10 V2 10 inch woofer works perfectly

I doubt it works perfectly. At 1970Hz a 10” woofer will be very directional. Therefore the crossover will likely only sum flat with the tweeter over a very narrow window close to on axis. Off-axis the frequency response will probably have a large gap and the speaker’s sound will be inconsistent from room to room.

 

[patq2]

Exactly what are you doing? Modifying an existing speaker? Building a speaker? What's your question?

I'd agree that "bigger is better" (usually) and I don't really consider anything less than 8-inches to be a "woofer", and certainly not a subwoofer. (I'm an old-school big-speaker snob!)


What? Do you have a crossover now? Or at-least a capacitor to block the bass from the tweeter?

Lots of considerations...

When you "randomly" change a driver it usually has more or less output and that messes-up the "balance" between the woofer & tweeter.

Typically, a bigger woofer doesn't go as high in frequency so there may be a gap between the woofer & tweeter. But they vary all over the place so that's not always the case and it depends on the crossover frequency.

They make "full range" drivers and that may work better as a woofer in a 2-way system with a 10-inch woofer.

Usually when woofers get bigger than 8-inches, you'll see a 3-way design.

If you lower the crossover frequency, of course the tweeter has to cover a lower-frequency range (which it may, or may not, be capable of. And when you lower the crossover point, the tweeter has to handle more power.

In a properly designed speaker, the box is "tuned" to match the woofer. Any time you change a woofer it's going to change how it interacts with the box. (Ported speakers are more critical than sealed boxes.) A larger driver usually needs a larger box or else-the tuning/resonance goes-up and the bass rolls-off more (or more steeply).

my tweeter has copac

Exactly what are you doing? Modifying an existing speaker? Building a speaker? What's your question?

I'd agree that "bigger is better" (usually) and I don't really consider anything less than 8-inches to be a "woofer", and certainly not a subwoofer. (I'm an old-school big-speaker snob!)


What? Do you have a crossover now? Or at-least a capacitor to block the bass from the tweeter?

Lots of considerations...

When you "randomly" change a driver it usually has more or less output and that messes-up the "balance" between the woofer & tweeter.

Typically, a bigger woofer doesn't go as high in frequency so there may be a gap between the woofer & tweeter. But they vary all over the place so that's not always the case and it depends on the crossover frequency.

They make "full range" drivers and that may work better as a woofer in a 2-way system with a 10-inch woofer.

Usually when woofers get bigger than 8-inches, you'll see a 3-way design.

If you lower the crossover frequency, of course the tweeter has to cover a lower-frequency range (which it may, or may not, be capable of. And when you lower the crossover point, the tweeter has to handle more power.

In a properly designed speaker, the box is "tuned" to match the woofer. Any time you change a woofer it's going to change how it interacts with the box. (Ported speakers are more critical than sealed boxes.) A larger driver usually needs a larger box or else-the tuning/resonance goes-up and the bass rolls-off more (or more steeply).

my Skar VX35-ST tweeter has a capaciter with crossover frequency of 1970 hertz 48DB crossover slope also there is no gap between my tweeters and 10 inch woofer

 

[voodooless]

my 10 inch woofer is the monolith M10 V2

That is subwoofer (driver). It will not work very well doing midrange duty. Efficiency will also be very low as well. You’ll have to pad the tweeter down a lot.

my Skar VX35-ST tweeter has a capaciter with crossover frequency of 1970 hertz 48DB crossover slope also there is no gap between my tweeters and 10 inch woofer

A capacitor will give only a 6 dB filter. What’s the filter on the woofer?

 

[Matt_Holland]

my tweeter has copac

my Skar VX35-ST tweeter has a capaciter with crossover frequency of 1970 hertz 48DB crossover slope also there is no gap between my tweeters and 10 inch woofer

There will be a gap as you measure off axis. The on-axis is no doubt ok.
It’s important to maintain consistent frequency response at all angles from the speaker. Otherwise the overall perceived sound in a room is not smooth.

It’s why you hardly see any speakers with anything larger than a 6” woofer crossing to a normal 1” tweeter.

 

[patq2]

That is subwoofer (driver). It will not work very well doing midrange duty. Efficiency will also be very low as well. You’ll have to pad the tweeter down a lot.


A capacitor will give only a 6 dB filter. What’s the filter on the woofer?

Its a subwoofer ???

yeah! it‘s a subwoofer and the crossover frequency for the monolith M10 V2 subwoofer is 440 hertz so I was thinking if the sub can do 450 hertz then it’s should be able to do 2000 hertz since 2000 is not very different from 450 and I was right the subwoofer can do 2000 hertz

 

[patq2]

Its a subwoofer ???

I use a different amp with the subwoofer so it can get higher frequencies

 

[mhardy6647]

I use a different amp with the subwoofer so it can get higher frequencies

eh?

 

[Penelinfi]

 

[dfuller]

I have so many questions. First one being, "why?"

yeah! it‘s a subwoofer and the crossover frequency for the monolith M10 V2 subwoofer is 440 hertz so I was thinking if the sub can do 450 hertz then it’s should be able to do 2000 hertz since 2000 is not very different from 450 and I was right the subwoofer can do 2000 hertz

That's not how that works for a multitude of reasons. That's more than two octaves different.

 

[Beave]

LOL at this thread.