Will an external DAC sound better/different than my AVR DAC?

[knownothing]

In an AVR, DSP is (obviously) done in the digital domain. So if you input an analogue signal and want to do ANY DSP (Including Crossover to sub which is done by the DSP), then the analogue signal is converted to digital, DSPd, and then converted back to analogue using the AVR DAC.

LFE are part of a digital signal stream - so can only be extracted in the digital processing, and sent to a SUB via the AVR DAC.

There is no DSP done in the amp section of an AVR. DSP is DIGITAL signal processing.

So you are saying that all AVRs have ADCs that convert analogue inputs to digital, process the signal in two of multiple channels, and then convert that to analog using the internal DACs of the AVR?

kn

 

[antcollinet]

es, if AVRs actually have ADC capabilities for incoming analog signals, which may exist in some models, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen one advertised with that capability.

They all can do that. That capability is not advertised (because the user doesn't care) but it is required for some of the features they do care about, such as the ability to do DSP on analogue inputs.

EG For crossover functionality, or multi speaker stereo effects (upmixing), room correction, etc etc.

 

[knownothing]

Every Denon/Marantz AVR has this feature.

How do you use a sub with the AVR in direct mode? Doesn't that bypass all DSP including sub/bass management?

Yes. I use high level output from the speaker terminals in this mode. On my receiver, “Analogue Stereo” also outputs bass via high level outputs, but “Analogue Stereo + Dolby Pro Logic” or any of the other 5.1 surround settings outputs bass via the low level RCA connection.

 

[antcollinet]

So you are saying that all AVRs have ADCs that convert analogue inputs to digital, process the signal in two of multiple channels, and then convert that to analog using the internal DACs of the AVR?

kn

Yes - if they do any sort of DSP on the analogue inputs - which all of the ones I've ever looked at can do. In fact the WHOLE POINT of "pure direct" or whatever naming is used by the different brands - is to avoid the ADC DSP DAC pipeline.

 

[Nutul]

So you are saying that all AVRs have ADCs that convert analogue inputs to digital, process the signal in two of multiple channels, and then convert that to analog using the internal DACs of the AVR?

kn

If they do DSP and/or spatial audio enhancements (like your stereo -> 5.1) yes; they MUST have an ADC, as there is no other way to apply such changes to an analog audio signal.

 

[knownothing]

They all can do that. That capability is not advertiesed (because the user doesn't care) but it is required for some of the features they do care about, such as the ability to do DSP on analogue inputs.

EG For crossover functionality, or multi speaker stereo effects (upmixing), room correction, etc etc.

Thanks, see my reply to @SKBubba on my recent user experience. I also get very different results comparing two channel digital in and the internal DAC of AVR compared with analog in from external DACs, and I have clear preference for sound of external DACs. The difference is not subtle.

kn

 

[krabapple]

Yes, if AVRs actually have ADC capabilities for incoming analog signals, which may exist in some models, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen one advertised with that capability.

Modern AVRs generally can and do apply DSP to *all* inputs, including analog. Avoiding that is what the 'Direct'/"Pure Direct' options are for.

see discussion e.g.,

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/denon-x4400h-does-analog-input-gets-converted-to-digital.3286182/

 

[antcollinet]

Thanks, see my reply to @SKBubba on my recent user experience. I also get very different results comparing two channel digital in and the internal DAC of AVR compared with analog in from external DACs, and I have clear preference for sound of external DACs. The difference is not subtle.

kn

If you've not compared blind and accurately level matched you can't rely on your listening "impressions"

 

[tc2007]

Buy the cheapest Topping E30 II or equivalent SMSL etc. from Amazon and if you don't hear a difference or don't like the sound of internal vs external DAC (level matched), then return it.

 

[knownothing]

If you've not compared blind and accurately level matched you can't rely on your listening "impressions"

I have level matched. The difference is not subtle. Based on the measurements of AVRs here, its not surprising that external DACs connected to the AVR via analog inputs in Direct Stereo mode sounds better than using the AVRs internal DAC for 2-channel.

kn