WiiM Pro - Review & Measurements (Streamer)

[nanook]

I think the Mini and the Pro both have their place.

The Mini has a fancy form factor and is a real bargain.

The Pro looks "grown up" and also has more "power" for possible SW extensions. The fact that Linkplay has gone to the trouble of crunching the PEQ code until the Mini can do it too is absolutely commendable.


I would probably have given the Pro a slightly better DAC and ADC chip than the Mini and an additional SPDIF or Toslink input. But that would have involved a lot of work on the firmware and app.

The additional analog PCB of the Pro-Plus does cost money, but then you only have one device.

 

[somebodyelse]

The fact that Linkplay has gone to the trouble of crunching the PEQ code until the Mini can do it too is absolutely commendable.

Or crunching some other code to make room for the extra PEQs. Commendable either way.

 

[Witterings]

I think the Mini and the Pro both have their place.

The Mini has a fancy form factor and is a real bargain.

The Pro looks "grown up" and also has more "power" for possible SW extensions. The fact that Linkplay has gone to the trouble of crunching the PEQ code until the Mini can do it too is absolutely commendable.


I would probably have given the Pro a slightly better DAC and ADC chip than the Mini and an additional SPDIF or Toslink input. But that would have involved a lot of work on the firmware and app.

The additional analog PCB of the Pro-Plus does cost money, but then you only have one device.

Agree with these comments ... the only other thing I'd add is the Mini can't play multiroom at high resolution so depends if someone's using it as a one off or wants it for multiroom use.
If you do want to use the Mini for multiroom AND for high resolution in 1 room, it's a pain to keep going in and switching the settings each time.
I initially bought 3 Mini's and then upgraded them all to Pros because of this.

 

[addeps2]

I really wish Wiim would have left the DAC and ADC out of the product, and just focused on making the digital output as "high end" as possible, with better components, because all I want is a wifi/ethernet capable streamer that I can chose music with my phone, but my old ass Naim Uniti 1 cant do that.

Then I watched that Hollander Hans who pretty much crapped all over the digital output of Wiim's, although he uses them himself, or did at the time, stating that "digital signals are analog".
I have no idea what the opinion is here, but that totally took the wind out of my sails.

One question; Ive disabled the EQ on the Pro, and set volume to fixed; should I change it to 95% and just keep it like that or is 100% the cleanest?

 

[JustJones]

I really wish Wiim would have left the DAC and ADC out of the product, and just focused on making the digital output as "high end" as possible, with better components, because all I want is a wifi/ethernet capable streamer that I can chose music with my phone, but my old ass Naim Uniti 1 cant do that.

Then I watched that Hollander Hans who pretty much crapped all over the digital output of Wiim's, although he uses them himself, or did at the time, stating that "digital signals are analog".
I have no idea what the opinion is here, but that totally took the wind out of my sails.

One question; Ive disabled the EQ on the Pro, and set volume to fixed; should I change it to 95% and just keep it like that or is 100% the cleanest?

Did you read the first post in this thread? The tests and review?
Fixed is fine without EQ if you use EQ set it to about 95%

Here’s Digital out performance. Hans is a buffoon.

 

[addeps2]

Did you read the first post in this thread? The tests and review?
Fixed is fine without EQ if you use EQ set it to about 95%

Here’s Digital out performance. Hans is a buffoon.
View attachment 437402

Of course I read it, thats why I have *questions* about it.

Is this how you welcome new members?

 

[Mort]

Is this how you welcome new members?

It's not uncommon.

 

[addeps2]

It's not uncommon.

Ah... okay, thanks.

 

[JustJones]

Of course I read it, thats why I have *questions* about it.

Is this how you welcome new members?

If you read the review then your question was answered and I fail to see the reason for your post?

 

[magreen]

I really wish Wiim would have left the DAC and ADC out of the product, and just focused on making the digital output as "high end" as possible, with better components, because all I want is a wifi/ethernet capable streamer that I can chose music with my phone, but my old ass Naim Uniti 1 cant do that.

Then I watched that Hollander Hans who pretty much crapped all over the digital output of Wiim's, although he uses them himself, or did at the time, stating that "digital signals are analog".
I have no idea what the opinion is here, but that totally took the wind out of my sails.

One question; Ive disabled the EQ on the Pro, and set volume to fixed; should I change it to 95% and just keep it like that or is 100% the cleanest?

Welcome to the forum! I understand that the consensus around here is that the digital output on the Wiim Pro (and the Wiim Mini as well, for that matter) measure as essentially perfect. I say essentially perfect--meaning that when fed into any reasonably modern DAC, there is no digital signal (at any price) that could be provided to the DAC that would produce measurably better results from that DAC.

 

[Petevid]

Yes, my understanding too. The digital performance of this Wiim product is apparently bit perfect and thereby transparent . I don't think it is possible to get more 'high end' than that.

 

[addeps2]

Welcome to the forum! I understand that the consensus around here is that the digital output on the Wiim Pro (and the Wiim Mini as well, for that matter) measure as essentially perfect. I say essentially perfect--meaning that when fed into any reasonably modern DAC, there is no digital signal (at any price) that could be provided to the DAC that would produce measurably better results from that DAC.

Wow, okay. Cool! Does that Hollander Hans know that? *cheeky face*

Yes, my understanding too. The digital performance of this Wiim product is apparently bit perfect and thereby transparent . I don't think it is possible to get more 'high end' than that.

Okay. Thats a stark contrast from that Hollandic guy. Is there any explanation to this discrepancy?

If you read the review then your question was answered and I fail to see the reason for your post?

Okay, explain this to me; how can both notions be true at once? 1: I read the review, which I enjoyed. Found some parts a little confusing, but I 'read' the post.
And, 2: I felt the need to ask.
How could you *combine* both those theories? Answer me that and I'll direct you in the right direction.

 

[antcollinet]

Okay. Thats a stark contrast from that Hollandic guy. Is there any explanation to this discrepancy?

Presumably he's not doing any measurements to verify what he is saying - nor is he doing any properly controlled listening tests.

So the explanation is the same as from all similarly subjective reviewers - perceptive bias.


I'll admit, I'm guessing a bit here, since you've not provided any link to the review in question.

 

[oleg87]

An audio youtuber hollering about something with zero evidence to back his claims really does not rise to the level of something to be seriously discussed.

 

[addeps2]

Presumably he's not doing any measurements to verify what he is saying - nor is he doing any properly controlled listening tests.

So the explanation is the same as from all similarly subjective reviewers - perceptive bias.

That is true, that he doesnt post any objective evidence to support his assertions. I'll bring that up on his comment section, and see what his reply may be.

An audio youtuber hollering about something with zero evidence to back his claims really does not rise to the level of something to be seriously discussed.

I dont disagree, but him asserting that "digital signals are analog" and that clock crystals in expensive boxes are superior to 0.25 cent ones make my inner audiophile quite paranoid.

 

[Mort]

That is true, that he doesnt post any objective evidence to support his assertions. I'll bring that up on his comment section, and see what his reply may be.

That's the right approach. Expect a cool initial reception there as well.

Unfortunately, there is still a lot of pseudo science practiced in the audio field. Many charlatans selling clicks believe objective evidence is irrelevant. Presumably because they have better hearing capability than can be tested by science.

 

[oleg87]

I dont disagree, but him asserting that "digital signals are analog" and that clock crystals in expensive boxes are superior to 0.25 cent ones make my inner audiophile quite paranoid.

Well, when someone talks about "time smearing" with respect to clock jitter, that is already a powerful tell someone is either a charlatan or clueless.
When someone describes at length their test setup but fails to make even the slightest effort to implement controls for bias, that confirms it. Since equipment that can be used to characterize and offer objective evidence of these alleged performance flaws can clearly be seen in the video, but is conspicuously not used, my money's on "charlatan".

You'd have to not only confirm a problematic digital signal from the source, but since most high-quality DACs have means of cleaning up the input, you'd want to verify that it actually affects the output. Neither of these things are offered, just vague subjective blathering.

 

[antcollinet]

That is true, that he doesnt post any objective evidence to support his assertions. I'll bring that up on his comment section, and see what his reply may be.


I dont disagree, but him asserting that "digital signals are analog" and that clock crystals in expensive boxes are superior to 0.25 cent ones make my inner audiophile quite paranoid.

Welcome to the forum. You are in the right place to get your inner audiophile de-paranoid-ized.

But it might take a while to become deprogrammed if you've spent some time in the realms of mainstream subjective audiophilia.


Bear in mind - audio electronics is all engineered. It is not magic, it has no supernatural properties. All of the physical mechanisms by which it can "interfer with" or "damage" the music are understood. Everything that can be heard can be measured. Not everything that can be measured can be heard (our measurement instruments are much more sensitive than our ears). There are not an infinite number of veils to be lifted.

Here is a really important one. Your ears detect the sound - but you interpret it with your brain. The information from our senses is continually being modified by the unconscious brain as it tries to predict the world around it. Just because you hear a difference between devices doesn't mean that difference exists in the soundwaves reaching your ears. It may well be created in the wetware between them. This is happening to everyone, all of the time. You literally cannot "trust your ears"

And - most modern solid state electronics (especially DACS and AMPS) are so good that the imperfections are inaudible or very close to inaudible. For everyone. As long as you get a device with decent measured performance, you are not going to hear a difference between that, and any other device at any price - assuming it is operated within it's specification (particularly power - for an amp - ie it is not clipping)

None of the above is in any way invalidated if you have "a highly resolving system" or "golden ears" or both.

Enjoy your journey.


EDIT - I might turn this into a first step mantra for recovering audiophiles.

 

[JustJones]

Found some parts a little confusing

What was confusing ? You asked 1 question about fixed output it was answered in the review. You mentioned digital output of the WiiM made by Hans Buffoon and I posted the measurement of the digital output from the review which showed that Han's per his usual babbling didn't know what he was babbling about.

 

[Mort]

What was confusing ? You asked 1 question about fixed output it was answered in the review. You mentioned digital output of the WiiM made by Hans Buffoon and I posted the measurement of the digital output from the review which showed that Han's per his usual babbling didn't know what he was babbling about.

You're coming in pretty hot to a new user question. It's that what you mean to do?