WiiM Pro - Review & Measurements (Streamer)

[JustJones]

You're coming in pretty hot to a new user question. It's that what you mean to do?

I considered my first answer pretty innocuous. I simply asked if the review was read since the question asked was answered in the review.

 

[Mort]

There are better topics to have this conversation. Dozens in fact. Have a look around.

 

[antcollinet]

What was confusing ? You asked 1 question about fixed output it was answered in the review. You mentioned digital output of the WiiM made by Hans Buffoon and I posted the measurement of the digital output from the review which showed that Han's per his usual babbling didn't know what he was babbling about.

Just because you intuitively understand what the measurements are showing doesn't mean everyone does. Especially newcomers.


Also

Let's be a little nicer, especially to newcomers

Hello you all. While I consider our forum to be more friendly than many, it seems that we are quite harsh on new members who post things that go against our consensus view. There is no reason to pound on people hard when they say this and that sounds good to them. Let them have some time here...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[kyuu]

Yeah, we can't expect everyone coming in new to easily understand everything in the reviews. Even as a technically inclined person, it took me a while and reading through literally dozens of reviews and hundreds of comments before I feel like I really grasped what all the graphs and metrics were saying.

Let's try to be a little more patient with those coming in looking for education rather than immediately blasting them. Save that for those who demonstrate that they have no intention of learning and are just here to stir the shit.

 

[oleg87]

my money's on "charlatan".

To add to my post, considering this guy is explicitly discussing bad electrical performance, if all that test equipment was more than set decoration, he would surely know that boutique "high-end" audio electronics very often perform *worse* than sensible reasonably priced equipment, since they feel obliged to reinvent the wheel instead of using conventional battle-tested designs, so his explicit use of price as performance index and avoidance of any objective metrics suggests to me he is in the sales and marketing business for the boutique audio products he reviews.

 

[somebodyelse]

I dont disagree, but him asserting that "digital signals are analog" and that clock crystals in expensive boxes are superior to 0.25 cent ones make my inner audiophile quite paranoid.

That's the usual trick of taking something factual then asserting without evidence that it has any bearing on the performance of the product in question.

If you look closely enough then digital signals are indeed analog. This is important in high speed connections like HDMI and you can see it in the eye diagrams used to pass or fail HDMI cables as compliant with the standard. Digital audio interconnects are around 3 orders of magnitude slower, so much easier to engineer. Plus any DAC worth buying has good rejection of small timing errors. If anything they're too highly tuned, giving them problems locking onto signals with slack timing like TV toslink outputs. Such problems are obvious not subtle. We haven't seen complaints from users of Wiim digital outputs., so it's safe to assume their behaviour is at least good enough even without the measurements.

Expensive clocks do indeed have better performance than very cheap ones. You can see exactly which parameters are improved from their datasheets. What isn't mentioned is which parameters are important in audio, and what for. There is no demonstration of the effect of the expensive clock relative to the cheap one at the DAC outputs.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

I really wish Wiim would have left the DAC and ADC out of the product, and just focused on making the digital output as "high end" as possible, with better components, because all I want is a wifi/ethernet capable streamer that I can chose music with my phone, but my old ass Naim Uniti 1 cant do that.

I struggle with this request since I also would love a WiiM device that is just a professional network streamer transport and nothing else. But at the same time, I strongly disagree with @addeps2's request even though I am one of the few people who would immediately purchase a WiiM device that matches their request.

Let me start with stating my wish, which is actually quite different from @addeps2's request:

I really wish WiiM would also focus on making a "professional" digital output because all I want is an ethernet capable streamer that I can connect into a studio-grade audio chain (e.g., RME USB Digiface)

What is behind my request? Being able to stream network input into a "professional" (i.e., studio) audio chain:

1. The ability for a professional WiiM device to accept clock master from an external source such as an RME USB Digiface*, RME UCX II, etc.
2. The ability to receive digital input from network sources and then the send output to a studio-grade audio chain (i.e., as a clock slave)
3. Any other inputs and outputs are optional, and can even be eliminated if it improves the audio quality

For example, I have an RME USB Digiface with that accepts 4 S/PDIF inputs. However, I cannot connect a WiiM device to that digital interface unless I'm willing to make the WiiM the master clock for my entire audio chain... which I'm not (and can't). Note: this feature request could potentially be handled by a software/firmware update to the WiiM Pro that adds an option to designate an S/PDIF input as the "master clock" — even though the audio source is the network streamed audio.

Now, why do I disagree with @addeps2's request for a network streamer only device that feeds a consumer-grade audio chain?

1. "High End" is not a defined concept, and often implies fancier boxes that serve as high fashion rather than delivering improved audio quality.
2. Better components will drive up the cost basis of the WiiM device, and is not consistent with the target market for the WiiM product line. Note: there are higher-end audio devices that incorporate LinkPlay's technology; and LinkPlay has to be careful to not encroach the market of those vendors with their own direct-to-market WiiM line.
3. The current network streaming quality is already more than sufficient for a consumer-audio playback device. All it needs is a small buffer and an adequate clock to be more than sufficient for bit-perfect reproduction of network streamed inputs.
4. Removing the additional inputs and the ADC outputs will not improve the audio quality of the the streaming network input to digital output audio flow.
5. Removing the additional inputs and the ADC outputs will not reduce the cost... it will actually make the device MORE EXPENSIVE for no improvement in quality of functionality.

Why would a network-only streamer from WiiM cost more than the current WiiM Pro? Because all incremental costs (design, development, marketing, support, manufacturing, warehousing, profit, etc.) to create a device that removes the other inputs and ADC outputs will be fully borne by the much smaller population of people (like me) who would purchase a stripped down WiiM that is just a network streamer and nothing else. But there are not that many people beyond myself and @addeps2 who would purchase a network-streaming only WiiM, and most of those people (like me) would also drop out if it costs more than the current WiiM Pro with no other functional benefit.

One other note: WiiM Pro is already, in some ways, this gift to us. It added the ethernet input and supports remote control, but it does not include the more expense DAC chip that is completely unused when the device is simply being used as streaming network transport in the digital realm only.

Edit: *The other option, of course, if is RME would update their USB Digiface so that one (or more) of the S/PDIF inputs can support re-clocking and/or sample rate conversation so that consumer-grade digital devices (e.g., network streamers, DVDs, CDs, etc.) can also be connected as digital source inputs.

 

[Overseas]

Is BT connection Aptx ?

 

[Nonick]

Is BT connection Aptx ?

No. Unfortunately supported codecs are SBC and AAC.
Same goes for Wiim Ultra.

 

[krihanek17]

Does the USB digital output of the WiiM Ultra show the same "perfect" performance?

 

[AAudio]

Comparing Wiim mini and Pro as a digital transport, is there any improvement in Pro's digital out?

Yes, a coax output. Also the Pro supports Chromecast.

 

[antcollinet]

Does the USB digital output of the WiiM Ultra show the same "perfect" performance?

You might want to quote the post you are replying to.

Otherwise : The same perfect performance as what?

 

[ZinMe]

I’m very happy with my WiiM Pro which I just started using last week. It’s an upgrade in UI over my Bluesound node2l, and despite the fact I’m just using it to pass streaming from Tidal to my AVR over digital coax, it sounds clearer to me. I have a question about using Tidal running within the WiiM app vs running tidal over tidal connect. Is there any difference in the streaming flow between the two methods?

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

WiiM humor for April 1st

Thread 'Introducing Vinyl Mode for Streaming!'
https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/introducing-vinyl-mode-for-streaming.6870/

 

[LDfades]

Looking to add a streamer to my SMSL RAW MDA1 setup that is currently connected by USB to my work laptop which isn’t exactly stellar spec wise.

Would the Wiim Pro or Mini be a good fit? Typically using Tidal on my laptop currently but use Apple Music on iPhone.

I also have a Rega P1 turntable which if can be integrated somehow might be of interest.

 

[JeremyFife]

Looking to add a streamer to my SMSL RAW MDA1 setup that is currently connected by USB to my work laptop which isn’t exactly stellar spec wise.

Would the Wiim Pro or Mini be a good fit? Typically using Tidal on my laptop currently but use Apple Music on iPhone.

I also have a Rega P1 turntable which if can be integrated somehow might be of interest.

WiiM mini is a brilliant, bit-perfect, streamer.

If you want to add your Rega TT then consider the WiiM Pro PLUS as that has a much better ADC than the cheaper units.
That would let you apply PEQ / room correction to your TT too, which is a brilliant option. Don't be put off by the idea that your TT signal is digitised - it's far better quality than vinyl can produce anyway, and you will retain the analogue characteristics just fine.
WiiM Ultra costs a little more, but has an OK phono stage too if you wanted that. Note that the Ultra does not support Airplay.

 

[Muddywaters]

This isn’t to dispute @JeremyFife at all, but @LDfades may try the Mini if they have a return option and get a taste of the streamer and feed the turntable into it and see how it fares in his system. Us being uber fidelity geeks we typically would go with the technically superior option for sure. Still has the room correction and peq options with the Mini.

Obviously more flexibility with the Pro & Pro+ with additional inputs.

I’ve just moved up from 2 Mini’s adding two Pro’s to get the digital inputs the Mini lacks. Purchased them here on ASR from a couple nice members and saved some $. Didn’t need the better ADC since I’m staying in the digital realm.

2 pence

***edit Will need to feed an RIAA equalized signal obviously to any of the three lesser WiiM’s

 

[LDfades]

Thanks both.

Not sure I fully understand the following:
“Will need to feed an RIAA equalized signal obviously to any of the three lesser WiiM’s”

Is this in relation to the TT or in general?

 

[nanook]

Thanks both.

Not sure I fully understand the following:
“Will need to feed an RIAA equalized signal obviously to any of the three lesser WiiM’s”

Is this in relation to the TT or in general?

If the signal from the TT is already amplified and RIAA equalized, then any of the WIIMs will do the job reasonably because then it's just a normal high-level signal.

This is what I think was meant.

 

[JeremyFife]

Thanks both.

Not sure I fully understand the following:
“Will need to feed an RIAA equalized signal obviously to any of the three lesser WiiM’s”

Is this in relation to the TT or in general?

That's just for the TT, which needs a separate phono stage (phono amp). Presumably you have one already anyway?