Wiim Pro + RPI and CamillaDSP setup - seeking advice

[piotr123]

Hello, I am pretty new to the foum, this is my first thread. I am trying to build a set-up that has Wiim Pro as a source and still allows to use Rasberry Pi5 and CamillaDSP for signal processing. I have it working, but set-up became quite complicated, and I started worrying that this chain compexity causes quality deterioration (actually this was suggested by one of the audio stores as well).

Why I would like to keep Wiim: I like its software, I really like that it has Optical Input (used to connect TV) with auto-sensing and trigger out. Thanks to this (and a little Arduino based project) I am able to have it start music playback (turning on the amp and DAC via IR signal, as they do not have trigger in) as soon as TV is turned on or streaming is started (I mainly use Tidal or home server files)

Why I would like to use RPI5 and CamillaDSP: I would like to play with Room Correction, it is fun, cost-effective, lots of learning involved, and at last I can hear changes . Probably I do not have most sensitive ears and I am immune to most of the changes in the system (of course except speakers, and to smaller extent amp).

Current set-up: Wiim Toslink Out -> Hifime S2 (Toslink to USB) -> USB in to RPI5 -> CamillaDSP -> USB out to SMSL PO100 PRO (not sure if it really adds much, got fixated on using Async USB, which Marantz did not have) -> Marantz NA 7004 (purely used as DAC)

While I run into some issues with Hifime S2 (when signal is super-silent, muted), which I am trying to troubleshoot (and got great help and suggestions on RPI + CamillaDSP thread - thank you!), I realized that connecting it through Marantz fixes the isssues, so my current (temporary, and crazily complex) setup:
Wiim Toslink Out -> Marantz 7004 Toslink IN -> Marantz 7004 Toslink Out (so Marantz is just like digital interface, but seems to resolve any issues with clicking sound of S2, I will troubleshoot S2 more as I am waiting for a replacement unit) -> S2 toslink in and USB to RPI5 -> CamillaDSP -> USB out to SMSL PO100 PRO -> Coaxial to SMSL SU-1 (I am pretty sure I should now just skip PO100 PRO as SU-1 USB in is basically the same, so I do not think it adds any value, but I also do not think it deteriorates anything).

And now a question: should I be concerned with deterioration of the signal because of those multiple steps. I do not hear anything obvious. When I contacted one of the hifi shops for advice on the best way of getting Wiim signal to RPI5 I was advised that this set-up involves too many conversions and is deteriorating the signal, and really the way forward would be to use RPI as a streamer (which as I explain I would like to avoid and keep on using Wiim) and add a hat with digital out or use standalone DSP with Dirac together with Wiim and skip RPI. I would like to have your thoughts, as while I appreciate that this setup is complex, I do not fully grasp where deterioration would happen, extent of deterioration and is there anything I should be particularly worried about (I would assume async USB would fix any timing issues on RPI out, so perhaps I would be more worried about getting signal in). Looking forward to your thoughts (and sorry for the long post and perhaps rather basic questions)!

 

[somebodyelse]

If all interfaces are working correctly the signal will maintain its integrity. You could test this by playing a known file and recording it on the Pi instead of passing through CamillaDSP, then comparing them - it should be the same once any silences at start and end have been trimmed. It needs to be before CamillaDSP to avoid the sample rate conversion, and you need to make sure the Wiim is not changing the volume.

Having said that, the Wiim has 10 band PEQ (maybe more now?) which is often enough for room correction. Unless you need something it can't do (too many PEQs, or convolution) you could skip the Pi entirely.

 

[obsessive9119]

The WiiM has built-in 2-channel auto room correction, which from some brief testing at least isn’t terrible. Or of course you could derive your own PEQ settings however you like and configure them in the WiiM.

 

[somebodyelse]

I assumed the PEQ settings would be found some other way to feed into CamillaDSP anyway, so feeding them into the Wiim instead wouldn't be a problem. I gather the room correction generated by the Wiim amp has been improving with new app versions.

 

[obsessive9119]

I assumed the PEQ settings would be found some other way to feed into CamillaDSP anyway, so feeding them into the Wiim instead wouldn't be a problem. I gather the room correction generated by the Wiim amp has been improving with new app versions.

Yeah it used to be pretty terrible.

 

[piotr123]

Thank you for all the responses. I did some listening tests (but again, I do not consider myself a very sensitive listener) and apart from very slight difference in volume level, I really cannot tell a difference between Wiim to Marantz to RPI5 (no filters) to SMSL vs Wiim to Marantz (which I think is a good sign that the complex setup works as intended...). I will try to record the wav and compare.

I am aware of 10-wave PEQ of Wiim Pro (also the auto correction, but I do not think it works well, at least with my phone, and I could not find a way to force it to use it UMIK-1). And of course I can generate PEQ in REW using UMIK-1 (that's actually what I initially did), and most probably it is all I need. It however takes away all the fun of playing with phase correction and applying convolution via Camilla DSP - getting it wrong, watching tutorials with differend ideas for room correction, etc. - I would say it is as much fun as actual listening to music (almost). And I learn in the process.

2 things I am thinking about:
does it make any sense to run RPI 5 to SMSL PO100 Pro interface to SMSL SU-1 coaxial in (PO 100 PRO was purchased when I still was using Marantz as DAC, I assume now no, and I should just go RPI to SMSL SU-1 USB directly)
Right now using Marantz NA7004 (which originally is a streamer) as Toslink to Toslink interface (it has both toslink in and out, and it fixes issues I am experiencing with Hifime S2 Digi - which might be resolved when I get replacement unit). As it fixes the issues, it makes me think it somehow improves (perhaps fixes any clock issues?) toslink signal, any thoughts if I should just consider leaving it as this type of interface in the chain (if I stick to SMSL SU-1 as DAC it will have no other function anyway)

Despite the complex setup latency is negligible (just filtering may have any noticeable impact there)

 

[melomane13]

You could simplify it like this: remove Wiim, use instead on rpi lms (lyrion music server, formerly logitech media server) as a streamer for tidal, local files, radio and the Hifime S2 will be used to retrieve the sound from the TV and send it back to camilladsp. This is what I use with pleasure, with a raspberrypi 4 and use a usb sound card which integrates the (spdif input (no need for Hifime S2). I programmed a bluetooth remote control which gives me access to different configurations, inputs, volume, tone, loudness, trigger power amp , with led display ...

 

[piotr123]

Thank you for the tip, might give it a try. I enjoy using Wiim trigger function - I have built little Arduino based "remote" that turns on DAC and Amplifier, and lowers volume by 3, whenever trigger is active, and turns both units off when trigger becomes inactive. I am sure it can be achieved with RPI directly as well, so perhaps a future project...

 

[melomane13]

here a script for this, fell free to use or not. it is perfectly working. https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-mdsimon2’s-implementation.52818/post-2317807