WiiM Pro Plus - Review & Measurements (Streamer)

[Westsounds]

yes, but most well-designed good DACs do sound more like each other than they sound different from each other. If there's a difference in sound to you that's perceived as better, I suppose you could say it's better 'to you'. In a completely blind and well conducted / controlled test though, even the best of us ears will be left scratching our heads

 

[tjf]

I'll just leave this statement here...Just got the Pro Plus, sounds pretty good via analog outputs vs. my experiences with the standard Pro...

On the EQ -- just how much functionality can you get from the 4 band parametric EQ, with two bands for High and Low shelf (not even High pass and Low pass filters, although you can probably use the HS and LS as band limiters) and just two "Peak" filters??????

 

[Tangband]

I'll just leave this statement here...Just got the Pro Plus, sounds pretty good via analog outputs vs. my experiences with the standard Pro...

On the EQ -- just how much functionality can you get from the 4 band parametric EQ, with two bands for High and Low shelf (not even High pass and Low pass filters, although you can probably use the HS and LS as band limiters) and just two "Peak" filters??????

Put on your helmet now because you just said that the new pro plus sounded better than the ordinary pro - but the measurements shows it should be impossible !
( SINAD above 90 with both players )

That said, I say its possible. WiiM says there is better quality clocking at the dac stage for the plus and if thats true it might be audible , even if some people on this site say its not audible .

Regarding 4 variable PEQ filters - this is much better than using a 10 band eq . Im more concerned about the digital quality of the PEQ, if the quality is as bad as the EQ for the WiiM . Or have they fixed this ?

With a very good installation of your speakers in the room , any PEQ use should be minimal or turned off.

 

[onlyoneme]

but the measurements shows it should be impossible !
( SINAD above 90 with both players )

Are you trying to say that SINAD above 90 dB measured using sine 1kHz signal, means that there are no audible differences at all between devices?

 

[Tangband]

Are you trying to say that SINAD above 90 dB measured using sine 1kHz signal, means that there are no audible differences at all between devices?

No , I say that some people on this forum are saying that all Dacs or digital gear sounds the same, which is a false statement . I dont agree.

( It might be true though if the listening is done through cheap computer speakers )

 

[Veri]

Are you trying to say that SINAD above 90 dB measured using sine 1kHz signal, means that there are no audible differences at all between devices?

96dB is full 16 bits of transparency. Which should be close to 'entirely transparent' or at least good enough for the vast majority of people, 'golden eared' or not..

 

[Westsounds]

I almost pulled the trigger on this device myself. It does have a lot going for it and particularly a PEQ, even if it's a limited one. I can't see why they can't have as many bands on that as they want, 4 is pretty poor. That has to be a future software tweak surely more so than it being a limitation of what the hardware can do. It was a later development anyway I'm sure theyve done it just to satisfy the customer now.

What this unit is though is a firm step in the right direction. It has a decent DAC not just a generic one that'll do the job, but also a PEQ. If they are taking up market share, Chinese companies will soon have to compete and give us more than just sound colours as an option, which many find hard to distinguish between anyway. The full PEQ control is what's been missing from hifi for too long. And if it can be done in the digital domain it's has massive potential to iron out any issues with sub optimum matched equipment and room issues.

 

[Westsounds]

No , I say that some people on this forum are saying that all Dacs or digital gear sounds the same, which is a false statement . I dont agree.

( It might be true though if the listening is done through cheap computer speakers )

You'll probably find level matched that they are more similar than different if well designed. There is only so much information on a digital file, once all of its been extracted perfectly which a good dac will do, the downstream equipment should be the main influence on what analogue sound reaches our ears.

 

[onlyoneme]

96dB is full 16 bits of transparency. Which should be close to 'entirely transparent' or at least good enough for the vast majority of people, 'golden eared' or not..

And? It's not about the measured level of noise and distortions, it's about how the measured level of noise and distortions using one particular test signal can reflect the behavior of DUT when different signals with different levels, different frequencies and complexity are used, when also time factor starts to be significant, etc.

 

[Matias]

I almost pulled the trigger on this device myself. It does have a lot going for it and particularly a PEQ, even if it's a limited one. I can't see why they can't have as many bands on that as they want, 4 is pretty poor. That has to be a future software tweak surely more so than it being a limitation of what the hardware can do. It was a later development anyway I'm sure theyve done it just to satisfy the customer now.

What this unit is though is a firm step in the right direction. It has a decent DAC not just a generic one that'll do the job, but also a PEQ. If they are taking up market share, Chinese companies will soon have to compete and give us more than just sound colours as an option, which many find hard to distinguish between anyway. The full PEQ control is what's been missing from hifi for too long. And if it can be done in the digital domain it's has massive potential to iron out any issues with sub optimum matched equipment and room issues.

Possibly they can add more bands in the future. They seem to be just starting out on PEQ.

And if higher precision and resolution is needed, there is always the regular Pro version digitally connected to an RME ADI-2 DAC and its more capable PEQ, along with better SNR and XLR outs and headphone out etc etc.

 

[Westsounds]

Possibly they can add more bands in the future. They seem to be just starting out on PEQ.

And if higher precision and resolution is needed, there is always the regular Pro version digitally connected to an RME ADI-2 DAC and its more capable PEQ, along with better SNR and XLR outs and headphone out etc etc.

Yes, the ideal would be that more of these manufacturers taking note and making units with just the streamer bit, with the multiple digital PEQ and a digital out for half the cost again, then you could use DAC of choice. And make it a LDAC bluetooth transmitter as well so you can fine tune bluetooth headphones as well.

 

[holbob]

I almost pulled the trigger on this device myself. It does have a lot going for it and particularly a PEQ, even if it's a limited one. I can't see why they can't have as many bands on that as they want, 4 is pretty poor. That has to be a future software tweak surely more so than it being a limitation of what the hardware can do. It was a later development anyway I'm sure theyve done it just to satisfy the customer now.

What this unit is though is a firm step in the right direction. It has a decent DAC not just a generic one that'll do the job, but also a PEQ. If they are taking up market share, Chinese companies will soon have to compete and give us more than just sound colours as an option, which many find hard to distinguish between anyway. The full PEQ control is what's been missing from hifi for too long. And if it can be done in the digital domain it's has massive potential to iron out any issues with sub optimum matched equipment and room issues.

There's a very interesting explanation in the RME Dac manual that explains why more EQ bands wouldn't be possible. They've done excellent to add 4 at this price point. 4 is enough for the bass region anyway.

 

[Westsounds]

There's a very interesting explanation in the RME Dac manual that explains why more EQ bands wouldn't be possible. They've done excellent to add 4 at this price point. 4 is enough for the bass region anyway.

I cant see why it is an issue to not have as many bands as you want on a PEQ. Many software packages have it, so do DSP units.

 

[tjf]

1st - the 4 band limit on the Wiim is likely due to limited processing capacity - i.e.: limted DSP computational power...

The 4 band limit is even worse in that 2 of the 4 bands are "shelf" filters, so only 2 are "peak" filters -- the peak filters are generally used to adjust/reduce frequency peaks or dips, and you need more than 2 to deal with room resonances/peaks below 500 Hz, the "shelving" filters cannot "notch" or reduce peaks at specific frequency ranges, they affect all frequencies equally below (low shelf) or above (high shelf) the selected "transition" frequency.

So for room EQ/correction, you really only have 2 Peak bands to use, and a limited function "Low Shelf" filter to raise or lower the range of frequencies below the selected "transition" frequency.

The "High Shelf" filter is of practically zero use for room correction in the room-dependant frequency region (below 500 Hz).

Reading Wiim's forums, they may update the Parametric EQ further by adding High Pass/Low Pass filter options as an alternative to the High Shelf/Low Shelf filters, but this still only leaves us with 2 Peak Filters.

I invite any correnctions by persons more knowledgable than I on the Parametric EQ topic, but what I've noted above is my understanding of the functionalities of the current 4 Band Parametric EQ of the Wiim Pro and Pro Plus...

 

[Matias]

In the latest app upgrade the HS/LS filters can be changed to peak filters, so a total of 4 peaks.

 

[Joffy1780]

1st - the 4 band limit on the Wiim is likely due to limited processing capacity - i.e.: limted DSP computational power...

The 4 band limit is even worse in that 2 of the 4 bands are "shelf" filters, so only 2 are "peak" filters -- the peak filters are generally used to adjust/reduce frequency peaks or dips, and you need more than 2 to deal with room resonances/peaks below 500 Hz, the "shelving" filters cannot "notch" or reduce peaks at specific frequency ranges, they affect all frequencies equally below (low shelf) or above (high shelf) the selected "transition" frequency.

So for room EQ/correction, you really only have 2 Peak bands to use, and a limited function "Low Shelf" filter to raise or lower the range of frequencies below the selected "transition" frequency.

The "High Shelf" filter is of practically zero use for room correction in the room-dependant frequency region (below 500 Hz).

Reading Wiim's forums, they may update the Parametric EQ further by adding High Pass/Low Pass filter options as an alternative to the High Shelf/Low Shelf filters, but this still only leaves us with 2 Peak Filters.

I invite any correnctions by persons more knowledgable than I on the Parametric EQ topic than I, but what I've noted above is my understanding of the functionalities of the current 4 Band Parametric EQ of the Wiim Pro and Pro Plus...

Fairly certain Wiim have said they'll be adding more bands in the near future, as well as the option of making them all peak filters.

 

[tjf]

Ok, thanks for the update, as well as the EQ update from Wiim -- have just checked and indeed the LS and HS filters can be changed to Peak filters -Thanks for the info!

Hopefully there will be more filters added on future Wiim updates, assuming the 4 Band limit isn't due to DSP processing power limitations...

 

[schali]

I compared Wiim Pro+ and DAC in Audiolab 6000A amplifier. I heard no difference, which is a good sign because the DAC in this amp is well implemented. I also tried comparing it to the SMLS SU-9 and the separate DAC did not convince me at all. The Wiim is an excellent box, you don't need anything else.

 

[modified]

Maybe excellent but how do I connect my USB-drives full of stuff? Maybe they would provide one more model...

 

[Westsounds]

Maybe excellent but how do I connect my USB-drives full of stuff? Maybe they would provide one more model...

I'm sure there'll be more at some point. Perhaps one with a tube would be nice as well