WiiM Mini Review (Streamer)

[staticV3]

my assumption is that when the signal is going into the receiver, you are not bypassing the receiver's internal DAC. Is that correct?

Toslink into the receiver will inevitably use the receiver's DAC.

RCA analog in might still use the receiver's DAC, depending on whether the receiver does tone controls, channel balance, etc in the analog or digital realm.

 

[LuckyLyndy]

staticV3,
Thank you for your assistance. I've been a bit frustrated trying to cobble my old gear (Phase Linear White Oaks modified amp, Dynaco VanAlstine modifed preamp, Hypex, Pass diy, etc. gear with modern gear. It just doesn't seem happy, and it looks like a rat's nest. Something I don't mind in my computer room, but not in the living room. Thanks again.

 

[hkrooner]

Bought the WiiM Mini to be able to stream Tidal Connect to a now old B&W Zeppelin Wireless. Glad I also got the SMSL SU-1. Today I plugged my projector's line out directly to the WiiM Mini's line in (and then via optical through the SU-1 to line in at the Zeppelin).

Noise floor's height was unbelievable. Ol' Led was purring louder than the cat when it spots the gecko.

I've never had this problem connecting my projector (an XGIMI H5 whose DAC I have always--and maybe wrongly--understimated) directly to the Zeppelin. True that there is ADC^2 + DAC^4 when the sound goes Projector > Mini > SU-1 > Zeppelin. But take the Mini out of the equation and any problem is gone.

In short: I always take these measurements with a grain of salt, but I'm astounded as to how attrocious the WiiM Mini's ADC probably is. Anyone who needs to hook up other gear to the setup should get the Pro Plus instead. I'm now needing to get a Toslink to Coaxial converter to connect the projector directly to the SU-1.

My consolation is that when I am streaming music from the Mini through the SU-1 to the Zeppelin... Wow. It's just heavenly. I can't imagine the Pro Plus being better, though it would probably be cheaper, all things considered (and more aesthetically pleasing).

Edit: the problem above has been solved. It was all ground loop. Still apparently introduced by the Mini, but solvable. Thanks, @antcollinet ! What I cannot solve is my Zeppelin's intolerance for inputs approaching 2Vrms. Maybe it's its ADC that is the bad one, after all (sounds very fine otherwise, though).

 

[Power Pop 23]

Bought the WiiM Mini to be able to stream Tidal Connect to a now old B&W Zeppelin Wireless. Glad I also got the SMSL SU-1. Today I plugged my projector's line out directly to the WiiM Mini's line in (and then via optical through the SU-1 to line in at the Zeppelin).

Noise floor's height was unbelievable. Ol' Led was purring louder than the cat when it spots the gecko.

I've never had this problem connecting my projector (an XGIMI H5 whose DAC I have always--and maybe wrongly--understimated) directly to the Zeppelin. True that there is ADC^2 + DAC^4 when the sound goes Projector > Mini > SU-1 > Zeppelin. But take the Mini out of the equation and any problem is gone.

In short: I always take these measurements with a grain of salt, but I'm astounded as to how attrocious the WiiM Mini's ADC probably is. Anyone who needs to hook up other gear to the setup should get the Pro Plus instead. I'm now needing to get a Toslink to Coaxial converter to connect the projector directly to the SU-1.

My consolation is that when I am streaming music from the Mini through the SU-1 to the Zeppelin... Wow. It's just heavenly. I can't imagine the Pro Plus being better, though it would probably be cheaper, all things considered (and more aesthetically pleasing).

I cannot offer a solution for the noise floor you are hearing.....

My aging ears have difficulty consistently hearing a difference if I use the optical output of my WiiM Mini streamer compared to using the line output jack.

 

[hkrooner]

I cannot offer a solution for the noise floor you are hearing.....

My aging ears have difficulty consistently hearing a difference if I use the optical output of my WiiM Mini streamer compared to using the line output jack.

@Power Pop 23 : Thank you for listening though the aging ears -- a feature to which I can relate! I don't think the problem is indeed with the WiiM's analog output, but rather with the input. With the ADC, that is. It is really something.

 

[antcollinet]

@Power Pop 23 : Thank you for listening though the aging ears -- a feature to which I can relate! I don't think the problem is indeed with the WiiM's analog output, but rather with the input. With the ADC, that is. It is really something.

Are you sure you haven't just got a ground loop going on?

When you say "remove the wiim and the problem is gone : what is the connection chain then? What does the projector connect into?

 

[hkrooner]

Are you sure you haven't just got a ground loop going on?

When you say "remove the wiim and the problem is gone : what is the connection chain then? What does the projector connect into?

I am using a passive amp / switcher (the JDS Labs Ol Switcher), since the SU-1 doesnt have volume control. The Ol Switcher is connected to the Zeppelin. Removing the Wiim means connecting the projector directly to the Ol Switcher's 3.5mm input.

But the WiiM is still there, feeding the SU-1 via optical for music, and being powered by a different source than the SU-1.

When you consider the Pro Plus, all this looks like a Rube Goldberg contrivance.

 

[hkrooner]

@antcollinet , thank you! It was indeed all ground loop, added by an unsuspected source (an HDMI switcher) connecting to the projector. It only happens when the WiiM is there, though. If I connect the SU-1 and the HDMI switcher to the same power source, no such problem happens. True that the 3.5mm cable is not going inside the SU-1, but straight to the Ol Switch, but the SU-1 is still connected via RCA to the Ol Switch. So the ground loop appears to be happening all inside the WiiM.

In any event: problem solved! Thank you so very much. I will include a note in my original post.

 

[antcollinet]

@antcollinet , thank you! It was indeed all ground loop, added by an unsuspected source (an HDMI switcher) connecting to the projector. It only happens when the WiiM is there, though. If I connect the SU-1 and the HDMI switcher to the same power source, no such problem happens. True that the 3.5mm cable is not going inside the SU-1, but straight to the Ol Switch, but the SU-1 is still connected via RCA to the Ol Switch. So the ground loop appears to be happening all inside the WiiM.

In any event: problem solved! Thank you so very much. I will include a note in my original post.

Glad you've solved it.

Bear in mind thought that ground loops are a system problem, not a component problem. If it is solved by changing the power connection point of the HDMI device, then that device is also involved in the ground loop - as well as the Wiim.

 

[Smitty2k1]

Has the Wiim Mini gotten the native LMS support that the pro and pro plus have?

 

[hkrooner]

ASR friends, I'm so sorry for abusing your wisdom, but one final question, if I may:

What's the best option for reducing volume going from WiiM Mini via optical to SMSL SU-1 -- turn volume down via the WiiM Mini (which I suppose is done via DSP by its DAC?) or passively attenuate it via my JDS Labs Ol Switcher?

 

[staticV3]

What's the best option for reducing volume going from WiiM Mini via optical to SMSL SU-1 -- turn volume down via the WiiM Mini (which I suppose is done via DSP by its DAC?) or passively attenuate it via my JDS Labs Ol Switcher?

Attenuating via your OL Switcher should result in slightly higher SNR.

However, it's unlikely to be an audible difference, so feel free to use what's most convenient to you.

 

[antcollinet]

ASR friends, I'm so sorry for abusing your wisdom, but one final question, if I may:

What's the best option for reducing volume going from WiiM Mini via optical to SMSL SU-1 -- turn volume down via the WiiM Mini (which I suppose is done via DSP by its DAC?) or passively attenuate it via my JDS Labs Ol Switcher?

I'd be using the Wiim volume control.

The problem with passive attenuators is they have high output impedance - especially at mid volume levels. (Yours uses a 10K pot). This can cause frequency response variation, depending on the downstream impedance. Again probably inaudible - but this would be my choice.

Alternatively - just try both and see if you can detect a difference

 

[Witterings]

ASR friends, I'm so sorry for abusing your wisdom, but one final question, if I may:

What's the best option for reducing volume going from WiiM Mini via optical to SMSL SU-1 -- turn volume down via the WiiM Mini (which I suppose is done via DSP by its DAC?) or passively attenuate it via my JDS Labs Ol Switcher?

I was wonderig the same recently and googled to find the answer which consensus seems to be the WiiM's volume control has virtually zero affect on the quality UNLESS you're using the graphic EQ in which case it does and shouldn't be used.

 

[antcollinet]

UNLESS you're using the graphic EQ in which case it does and shouldn't be used.

I'd be quite surprised if that were the case. Are there any references for this (other than "someone said it on a forum" )

 

[Witterings]

I'd be quite surprised if that were the case. Are there any references for this (other than "someone said it on a forum" )

Have a read through and form your own opinion

Sound quality when using EQ or Volume Control

As I understand it, if you leave the volume fixed and do not use the EQ, the Wiim Pro and Mini pass the music on bitperfect. My question is > If you do use volume control or EQ, how much fidelity do you lose? If you start with a 24/192 file, what exactly does the Wiim pass on if you use volume...

forum.wiimhome.com

 

[hkrooner]

I'd be using the Wiim volume control.

The problem with passive attenuators is they have high output impedance - especially at mid volume levels. (Yours uses a 10K pot). This can cause frequency response variation, depending on the downstream impedance. Again probably inaudible - but this would be my choice.

Alternatively - just try both and see if you can detect a difference

Thanks a lot. I've honestly found the sound better with passive attenuation, but setting a max volume (as @staticV3 nicely suggested in another thread) would make my life easier as I have a second source with substantially lower volume feeding the SU-1 via coaxial.

I might just as well do so, as your judgment is surely way more qualified than my aging ears!

I had been using the pot just up to 12 o'clock, as @amirm suggested with the Schiit Sys (though that one uses a 5K pot) -- not sure if that can explain my subjective impression.

Just to confirm, though, as @Witterings link made me confused: does the max volume mean the WiiM Mini is actively attenuating volume via DSP (i.e. with its TI DAC), or is that being done by the SU-1? Apologies if this is a very dumb question.

 

[antcollinet]

Have a read through and form your own opinion

Sound quality when using EQ or Volume Control

As I understand it, if you leave the volume fixed and do not use the EQ, the Wiim Pro and Mini pass the music on bitperfect. My question is > If you do use volume control or EQ, how much fidelity do you lose? If you start with a 24/192 file, what exactly does the Wiim pass on if you use volume...

forum.wiimhome.com

Well - I'm not going to read the whole thread. The few posts Ive seen seem to be referring to EQ when DAC volume is at max - in which case an EQ boost on top of max volume can cause clipping.

But that is the case whether or not you are using the Wiim volume control - in fact more so without it, when it will be set to max.

 

[Witterings]

Well - I'm not going to read the whole thread

I think you should actually ... may give you a new insight and possibly even better informed?

 

[hkrooner]

According to the thread, volume control in the WiiM Mini is only done internally by the Mini's own DAC when the unit is outputting via its aux out socket. When it's outputting via optical or coaxial, volume adjustments will be made at the destination, in my case the SU-1. That'd be fascinating to me, and make my original question a moot one.