WiiM Mini Review (Streamer)

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View attachment 363715Since it‘s for free, it‘s worth a try ;-)
… when in stock again!

That was for illustration purposes. i do own the Theta already.

 

[JeremyFife]

Would the optical out on the WiiM be good to use on a 1990s Theta DS Pro prime DAC?

Theta Digital DS Pro Prime D/A Processor (DAC)

Theta DACs have quite a following and we never seem to be able to keep them in stock. These days it's hard to find a better sounding dedicated DAC for Redbook CD reproduction, as most focus entirely on Hi-Res audio. The Prime is working absolutely perfect and looks great with little to no signs...

skyfiaudio.com

Yes.

It's a good/great (bit perfect if you don't use the EQ) digital transport for any DAC.

 

[Philipp]

If it is right that the Theta DAC is from 1990, than the question rises if the built-in DAC of the Mini might out-perform the Theta, the WiiM Pro Plus surely does, but you know that already, don‘t you.

 

[stadsbeplanner]

If it is right that the Theta DAC is from 1990, than the question rises if the built-in DAC of the Mini might out-perform the Theta, the WiiM Pro Plus surely does, but you know that already, don‘t you.

Based on what i read here it's my understanding that the WiiM is a very good transport but less accomplished as a DAC. Which got me thinking that I could use my Theta. Whether the Theta is outdated i don't known.

 

[Philipp]

Still, your DAC is from the 90s, that‘s very very old, just for an example where DACs in the same price range played ten years ago, than go figure what your Theta is capable of. Said without seeing measurements of the Theta.
Rega Dac Review
The Rega beats the Mini, but just so.
Your Theta might not.

 

[Philipp]

Theta measurements
Found something old as the Theta, maybe someone more capable than me might be able to draw a conclusion if the Mini’s built-in DAC outperformes the Theta.

 

[antcollinet]

Theta measurements
Found something old as the Theta, maybe someone more capable than me might be able to draw a conclusion if the Mini’s built-in DAC outperformes the Theta.

The mini dac doesn't measure as well as the pro plus, or rmany other of the better dacs measured here.

However, it is highly unlikely you would detect any difference in real world listening conditions. This might not be the case with a 30+ year old DAC - but it is impossible to know without measurements.

What I would say is - don't buy an old DAC because you think it will sound better than the mini - that is highly unlikely. The mini (even with its mediocre measurements) is transparent for pretty much all people pretty much all of the time.

 

[Witterings]

The mini dac doesn't measure as well as the pro plus, or rmany other of the better dacs measured here.

However, it is highly unlikely you would detect any difference in real world listening conditions. This might not be the case with a 30+ year old DAC - but it is impossible to know without measurements.

There's is quite a significant difference between the Pro and the Pro Plus's Dacs so I can't imagine the Mini would be any better, if not worse than the Pro.

I also tried a Pro with a Topping E30 Dac vs the Pro Plus and perferred the Pro Plus.

Personally I think the Pro Plus is an extremely good balance between cost / quality and less boxes when compared to a Mini or a Pro with a seperate Dac.

 

[antcollinet]

There's is quite a significant difference between the Pro and the Pro Plus's Dacs so I can't imagine the Mini would be any better, if not worse than the Pro.

I think the mini and the pro are basically the same (but don't quote me on that). But as I say above - at a SINAD of 85 to 90, is going to be transparent to pretty much everyone, pretty much all of the time in real world listening conditions.

I also tried a Pro with a Topping E30 Dac vs the Pro Plus and perferred the Pro Plus.

I'm sure you know what I'm going to ask here : Level matched? Blind? Statistically relevant? Your comparison might be valid for you - but without those basic controls, not to anyone else.

 

[SunnyRehde]

My experience: WiiM mini (TIDAL Connect) to Topping E50 DAC to Topping PA5 amp to (efficient) speakers make a wonderful budget ‚highend‘ chain. I don‘t miss a thing!

In the meantime I downsized to the Wiim
Amp as an all-in-one-solution. Not the same league in terms of SINAD….anyway, I doubt I could sort that out in a blind test.

 

[stadsbeplanner]

Some feedback. I ordered the Pro Plus instead of the Mini thinking that if the Theta DAC does not work, I would at least have the benefit of the improved WiiM DAC.
Well, turns out it wasn’t necessary. The Theta DAC creams the pro Plus's own DAC. Go figure.

 

[antcollinet]

Some feedback. I ordered the Pro Plus instead of the Mini thinking that if the Theta DAC does not work, I would at least have the benefit of the improved WiiM DAC.
Well, turns out it wasn’t necessary. The Theta DAC creams the pro Plus's own DAC. Go figure.

I take it you didn't do a controlled/level matched/blind comparison. The pro plus DAC is transparent (inaudible noise & Distortion), so unless the Theta is adding significant noise or distortion itself, there should be no audible difference.

If it is adding audible distortion, then it is not "creaming" the Pro Plus - you just prefer the sound.


EDIT : Or - probably more likely - you didn't accurately level match, and a small volume difference made the Theta sound better.

 

[WDeranged]

I got a WiiM Mini yesterday and it's pretty damn good. There are a few small niggles and missing features but they seem keen on properly supporting their software side.

I'm running it through the internal DAC of my Yamaha A-S301. Sounds quality seems about the same as my Marantz CD player, maybe a little bit more detailed. I also bought a SMSL SU-1 but I haven't tested it yet. I didn't expect the Yamaha DAC to sound so good so I'm thinking the SMSL might get returned...

 

[Philipp]

I take it you didn't do a controlled/level matched/blind comparison. The pro plus DAC is transparent (inaudible noise & Distortion), so unless the Theta is adding significant noise or distortion itself, there should be no audible difference.

If it is adding audible distortion, then it is not "creaming" the Pro Plus - you just prefer the sound.


EDIT : Or - probably more likely - you didn't accurately level match, and a small volume difference made the Theta sound better.

Very well put! It takes Master Contributor skillz to politely call bs and even explain why it is bs based on hard facts vs. golden ear attitude. Chapeau!

 

[stadsbeplanner]

Very well put! It takes Master Contributor skillz to politely call bs and even explain why it is bs based on hard facts vs. golden ear attitude. Chapeau!

Is what I hear bs? thank you for your arrogance.
sure, you are free to base your decisions on measurements. But surely there is nothing wrong with basing my decisions on what I hear!

 

[Basic Channel]

Is what I hear bs? thank you for your arrogance.
sure, you are free to base your decisions on measurements. But surely there is nothing wrong with basing my decisions on what I hear!

Yes, your hearing and perception is affected by volume/expectation and so on. Unlike a microphone.

It is you who is probably being arrogant, unaffected by volume differences, able to hear differences likely at -90db below peak, and with incredible audio memory as it probably takes some time to A/B.

 

[markstein]

Hi, sorry if I missed this information in 66 pages of comments... Did anybody measure the impact of WIIM mini PEQ on SINAD when using SPDIF out? Are these PEQs well implemented and usable?

@amirm: You measure PEQ impact on SINAD in your newer reviews (e.g., Topping D50 III) - suggest to make this a standard measurement whenever such a functionality is available.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Hi, sorry if I missed this information in 66 pages of comments... Did anybody measure the impact of WIIM mini PEQ on SINAD when using SPDIF out? Are these PEQs well implemented and usable?

@amirm: You measure PEQ impact on SINAD in your newer reviews (e.g., Topping D50 III) - suggest to make this a standard measurement whenever such a functionality is available.

Amir did measure impact of PEQ on the Pro Plus.

 

[markstein]

Thank you, was not aware of this!

Would it be valid to assume that
- "EQ on" with all PEQs set to zero (as in WIIM Pro Plus review) shows all detrimental effects?
- the PEQ implementation in WIIM mini and WIIM Pro Plus are identical?

 

[staticV3]

Thank you, was not aware of this!

Would it be valid to assume that
- "EQ on" with all PEQs set to zero (as in WIIM Pro Plus review) shows all detrimental effects?
- the PEQ implementation in WIIM mini and WIIM Pro Plus are identical?

Just FYI, instead of assuming a bunch of things and relying on hearsay, you can measure the effect of EQ yourself using the $30 Hifime UR23 and the free software Room EQ Wizard.

Because the output signal is digital, no special five figure audio analyzer is required to get good results, and no training to avoid the many pitfalls of analog audio.

Just do WiiM->UR23->PC, open REW and start the capture, and you will capture the WiiM's output in its entirety.