WiiM Mini Review (Streamer)

[vik.os]

Hey folks,

I’ve been trying to figure out if enabling EQ on WiiM Pro resamples audio using internal DAC or not.

My setup is iPhone AirPlay 2 -> WiiM Pro -> Coaxial digital out -> Cambridge Audio CXA61 (with internal DAC) -> Q Acoustics 3030i

Depending how a record produced, I sometimes like to cut a little bit in the high mid frequencies (something close to Loudness EQ setting but less). So I don’t increase bass and treble but rather cut the high mids to avoid possible distortion.

However, I can’t figure out if EQ settings go through WiiM internal DAC or not.

Same question for WiiM volume control - does it go through WiiM internal DAC or not?

Many thanks!

 

[onlyoneme]

Hey folks,

I’ve been trying to figure out if enabling EQ on WiiM Pro resamples audio using internal DAC or not.

My setup is iPhone AirPlay 2 -> WiiM Pro -> Coaxial digital out -> Cambridge Audio CXA61 (with internal DAC) -> Q Acoustics 3030i

Depending how a record produced, I sometimes like to cut a little bit in the high mid frequencies (something close to Loudness EQ setting but less). So I don’t increase bass and treble but rather cut the high mids to avoid possible distortion.

However, I can’t figure out if EQ settings go through WiiM internal DAC or not.

Same question for WiiM volume control - does it go through WiiM internal DAC or not?

Many thanks!

What do you mean by going "through WiiM internal DAC" when both cases with the digital output involved are for digital domain?

 

[vik.os]

What do you mean by going "through WiiM internal DAC" when both cases with the digital output involved are for digital domain?

So changing EQ settings doesn’t require converting to analog and back to digital? I’m just asking because I’m a complete noob in this

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

So changing EQ settings doesn’t require converting to analog and back to digital? I’m just asking because I’m a complete noob in this

Google "DSP".

 

[vik.os]

Google "DSP".

Ah.. that answers my question. Thanks!

 

[ZolaIII]

Hey folks,

I’ve been trying to figure out if enabling EQ on WiiM Pro resamples audio using internal DAC or not.

My setup is iPhone AirPlay 2 -> WiiM Pro -> Coaxial digital out -> Cambridge Audio CXA61 (with internal DAC) -> Q Acoustics 3030i

Depending how a record produced, I sometimes like to cut a little bit in the high mid frequencies (something close to Loudness EQ setting but less). So I don’t increase bass and treble but rather cut the high mids to avoid possible distortion.

However, I can’t figure out if EQ settings go through WiiM internal DAC or not.

Same question for WiiM volume control - does it go through WiiM internal DAC or not?

Many thanks!

The Q3030i have a bit recessed uper midrange (1 to 2 KHz range) and exhibit a port caused (at low bass region of course) cabinet refractions at about 1.2 KHz. First is eyes one to fix even with simple fixed point EQ like one on WiiM (1 KHz +1 dB and 2 KHz +2 dB), second one is lot harder and only partiality possible with PEQ.
QA Q3030i are really good with port's closed and high/low passed with sub/sub's at 80 or 100 Hz (which resolves resonance and improve midrange and uper midrange in generally).

 

[vik.os]

The Q3030i have a bit recessed uper midrange (1 to 2 KHz range) and exhibit a port caused (at low bass region of course) cabinet refractions at about 1.2 KHz. First is eyes one to fix even with simple fixed point EQ like one on WiiM (1 KHz +1 dB and 2 KHz +2 dB), second one is lot harder and only partiality possible with PEQ.
QA Q3030i are really good with port's closed and high/low passed with sub/sub's at 80 or 100 Hz (which resolves resonance and improve midrange and uper midrange in generally).

I keep the ports closed for now as the speakers are relatively close to the wall. But if I move them at least 2-3 feet away they sound quite good without ports being closed.

I’m very happy how they sound given the price (£270 on Amazon). I also briefly tested Dali Oberon 3 and those were better sounding speakers to me. But I didn’t have the budget for those.

 

[amadeuswus]

Hey folks,

I’ve been trying to figure out if enabling EQ on WiiM Pro resamples audio using internal DAC or not.

My setup is iPhone AirPlay 2 -> WiiM Pro -> Coaxial digital out -> Cambridge Audio CXA61 (with internal DAC) -> Q Acoustics 3030i

Depending how a record produced, I sometimes like to cut a little bit in the high mid frequencies (something close to Loudness EQ setting but less). So I don’t increase bass and treble but rather cut the high mids to avoid possible distortion.

However, I can’t figure out if EQ settings go through WiiM internal DAC or not.

Same question for WiiM volume control - does it go through WiiM internal DAC or not?

Many thanks!

Welcome to ASR, vik.os.

You might want to look at this thread I've linked (forum member Vintage Flanker's measurements of the WiiM Pro). There is extended discussion in the thread about digital clipping that can happen with the WiiM streamers in fixed (100%) output mode when eq is applied. It's said that the latest firmware updates have not really fixed this, but I don't know what the current verdict is. It's possible though that clipping may not be as much of a concern if you are only cutting, rather than boosting, bands. Also, reducing the output level by a few notches can prevent clipping--and the WiiM is apparently quite transparent when used as a digital volume control.

I hope better informed forum members will give you more guidance with these issues.

WiiM Pro - Review & Measurements (Streamer)

WiiM Pro - Review & Measurements Hey folks, It is time for my first review of 2023... This one is about a complete objective analysis of the new WiiM Pro streamer. The aforementioned has been recently announced, back in November 2022, and I can see quite a strong hype around it since. That...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Rebelhifi]

Seems I have a similar scenario (and question): how is Wiim Mini better than Apple Airport Express 2 (or the other round)?

My girlfriend and many guests have non-Apple devices, but I will play mostly from Apple (MBP, iPhone, iPad) into a Topping D10S DAC (unless there's better sound quality for not crazy much more money) - WiFi streaming or through cable. Unfortunately, I don't (yet) know much in terms of different types of connections and keeping the audio quality high ...

WiiM has better controls in the Apple. The sound quality is the same. The AirPort Express is discontinued which I needed to cost effectively replace if I wanted to continue with the Apple Ecosystem.

 

[CauliflowerEars]

WiiM has better controls in the Apple. The sound quality is the same. The AirPort Express is discontinued which I needed to cost effectively replace if I wanted to continue with the Apple Ecosystem.

Ah, understood. I went with the Wiim Mini, but just realised the Optical input in my new DAC (Topping e50) has worse sound quality than USB in, so now want/have to look for a budget solution … do you happen to know, if there’s a good audio streamer with USB output in the Wiim Mini price range?

 

[Big White]

Ah, understood. I went with the Wiim Mini, but just realised the Optical input in my new DAC (Topping e50) has worse sound quality than USB in, so now want/have to look for a budget solution … do you happen to know, if there’s a good audio streamer with USB output in the Wiim Mini price range?

How bad is it? Have you tried using a quality optical cable?

 

[Merifon]

Ah, understood. I went with the Wiim Mini, but just realised the Optical input in my new DAC (Topping e50) has worse sound quality than USB in, so now want/have to look for a budget solution … do you happen to know, if there’s a good audio streamer with USB output in the Wiim Mini price range?

That's strange, in a obsessive compulsive phase, I tested on the same dac (smsl DO100) , the same songs from two Tidal hi-fi accounts, confronting wiim mini and an iphone usb connected. I setup to playing songs in sync and switched from an input to the other and back. To be honest, I didn't hear differences. I think that instant switch, is the only way to catch differencies, if any. Too long time in change connection, falses the results, aural memory is too much faible.

 

[Zapper]

Ah, understood. I went with the Wiim Mini, but just realised the Optical input in my new DAC (Topping e50) has worse sound quality than USB in,

How so? Amir's only comment in his review of the e50 was this:

Jitter over USB is perfect: ... It degrades just a hair over Toslink/Coax:

showing "slight jitter components (well below audibility)". Like very far below audibility at -130dB. Is that what you're worried about?

Also, Amir's WiiM Mini review showed a clean jitter-free TOSLINK output, so no worries about jitter contamination from the WiiM.

 

[onlyoneme]

Also, Amir's WiiM Mini review showed a clean jitter-free TOSLINK output, so no worries about jitter contamination from the WiiM.

No, it did not.

 

[CauliflowerEars]

That's strange, in a obsessive compulsive phase, I tested on the same dac (smsl DO100) , the same songs from two Tidal hi-fi accounts, confronting wiim mini and an iphone usb connected. I setup to playing songs in sync and switched from an input to the other and back. To be honest, I didn't hear differences. I think that instant switch, is the only way to catch differencies, if any. Too long time in change connection, falses the results, aural memory is too much faible.

How so? Amir's only comment in his review of the e50 was this:


showing "slight jitter components (well below audibility)". Like very far below audibility at -130dB. Is that what you're worried about?

Also, Amir's WiiM Mini review showed a clean jitter-free TOSLINK output, so no worries about jitter contamination from the WiiM.

Thank you for your response. I meant the E50's input specs, as below. That's why I am looking for a WiFi streamer with a good USB output. Does anyone have any good recommendations? Hopefully in the Wiim Mini price range or so ...

How bad is it? Have you tried using a quality optical cable?

As I have replied to your question in the E30 II post:
I compared the E50's USB (Laptop) and Optical/Toslink (Wiim Mini). Both from the same Tidal HiFi laptop app. I'd say the Optical sounds maybe about 5% worse. BUT, in the careful 'critical listening' setting. I do the 'critical' through USB anyway and Wiim mainly for background music, so not much of an issue.

Eva Cassidy - Ain't No Sunshine: https://tidal.com/browse/track/53262839
The guitar intro has some 'dirt' from how the strings have been touched/struck by the player.
a. USB - those 'dirts' sound more. I quite enjoy them as little 'treats'.
b. Opt - can't hear them that well. They are just some quiet dirts.

Daft Punk - Giorgio by Moroder: https://tidal.com/browse/track/20115559
The 4:40 min cosmic sound modulation has more detail through USB.

 

[Merifon]

I compared the E50's USB (Laptop) and Optical/Toslink (Wiim Mini). Both from the same Tidal HiFi laptop app

Maybe i'm not recalling well but there should be some settings for Tidal app output on laptop, i think direct output or through windows mixer. Could this lead to different results?

 

[CauliflowerEars]

How so? Amir's only comment in his review of the e50 was this:


showing "slight jitter components (well below audibility)". Like very far below audibility at -130dB. Is that what you're worried about?

Also, Amir's WiiM Mini review showed a clean jitter-free TOSLINK output, so no worries about jitter contamination from the WiiM.

No, it did not.

Maybe i'm not recalling well but there should be some settings for Tidal app output on laptop, i think direct output or through windows mixer. Could this lead to different results?

Well, what the review said was:
'Conclusions
If you use the App and Toslink output, you basically have a transparent wireless link to your stereo. Connect it to your favorite DAC and your performance will only be limited by the rest of your system.'

And from my understanding, the E50's input quality difference could be the 'your performance will only be limited by the rest of your system', couldn't it?

@Merifon Do you mean those settings? If so, I think they are about the overall quality that comes from the app, despite the output.
When testing, I switched the laptop's output between E50 (USB) and Wiim Mini (WiFi).

 

[Merifon]

@Merifon Do you mean those settings? If so, I think they are about the overall quality that comes from the app, despite the output.
When testing, I switched the laptop's output between E50 (USB) and Wiim Mini (WiFi).
View attachment 277850 View attachment 277851

maybe i'm wrong but i remind in sound output, below system default, after choose what device, the possibility to exclusive use or similar. I had an external Yamaha dac and different choices leaded to differente results, maybe just in loudness...
I'm not using anymore the desktop app and cannot verify. Anyway it was on windows10.
Perhaps you use wiim selecting from Mac's sound prefs? In that case wiim will be driven via Airplay2, that i believe is not bit berfect.

 

[CauliflowerEars]

maybe i'm wrong but i remind in sound output, below system default, after choose what device, the possibility to exclusive use or similar. I had an external Yamaha dac and different choices leaded to differente results, maybe just in loudness...
I'm not using anymore the desktop app and cannot verify.

I think you are referring to this, but it would probably lead to differences in the overall output. It doesn't specify USB or WiFi, so my deduction is that the Tidal laptop app plays the same quality and the further limitations could be:
a. Either the laptop's USB vs WiFi - I don't yet know much about this.
b. Or E50's USB vs Opt input - from the specs, it seems this might be the case, but I am not an expert ...

 

[Merifon]

I think you are referring to this, but it would probably lead to differences in the overall output. It doesn't specify USB or WiFi, so my deduction is that the Tidal laptop app plays the same quality and the further limitations could be:
a. Either the laptop's USB vs WiFi - I don't yet know much about this.
b. Or E50's USB vs Opt input - from the specs, it seems this might be the case, but I am not an expert ...
View attachment 277852

yes, on windows systems, exclusive mode take direct control of audio device, bypassing some operating system's modules. It should anyway better, if you don't need other sounds...
This affects USB output use only, not the Wiim that is driven directly by streaming source from the net.