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WiiM Mini Review (Streamer)

Rate this streamer:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 8 2.3%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 35 10.3%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 178 52.2%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 120 35.2%

  • Total voters
    341

photodesignch

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You must be mistaking ASR for PS Audio or some other such site for absurdity. Facts and measurements matter here, not what some old guy thinks he "hears".
I just don't think measurements meant everything. Numbers are just there to provide some part of the whole truth. Even Paul at PS Audio tells people, measurements can't never explain of everything. Hence, he just simply can't make sense out of why tube preamp sounded better in his video. :)
 

Ralph_Cramden

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I just don't think measurements meant everything. Numbers are just there to provide some part of the whole truth. Even Paul at PS Audio tells people, measurements can't never explain of everything. Hence, he just simply can't make sense out of why tube preamp sounded better in his video. :)
...which is how he sells his overpriced garbage to fools...
 

notakosan

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I can do this. It explains a lot of what is experienced here.

It surprises me how clear the difference is between 16/48 and 24/96 or 24/192. Probably it is because Amazon uses a different quality source file for non-high-res music. Like Amir once wrote: "Once you hear [it, referring to aliasing] you cannot unhear it." And low res becomes annoying.

Thanks again for your support here.

Whenever Amazon Music reverts to its "standard" source, I can almost always tell. Somehow Amazon's standard format sounds so much worse than 44.1 lossless. Spotify does not have such problem even though their stream is lossy.
 

Jim Shaw

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My opinion about DAC's are that mostly if they are engineered reasonable well they should produce the same analogue output but obviously the analogue circuits within a device can / will introduce some levels of noise / distortion and mostly what is tested here, when comparing DACs, is whether than noise affects the sound? I know people talk about DAC 'colourisation' but surely that is the analogue output side of the DAC hardware being sub-optimal? Anyway, given I want to replace a RPI with an simple DAC hat with the Wiim would I notice a drop in quality without try to get an small external DAC?
My observation is 'yes, likely'. The WiiM seems not so much intended to be an audiophile quality DAC. It is much better as a WiFi-connected streamer, outputting digital via Toslink/optical to a much better DAC. The built-in DAC is pretty much for casual use. That said, the WiiM analog output is useful with small systems and some headphones. I've tried it on a decent system using both analog out to amplifier input and optical output thru a good DAC then amp. The sound quality difference is easily heard.
 

Jim Shaw

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Stereophile on the WiiM Mini:

This has been cited earlier, I am sure. But it provides a pretty deep look at the WiiM Mini. Read it to help draw your own conclusions:
 

photodesignch

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My observation is 'yes, likely'. The WiiM seems not so much intended to be an audiophile quality DAC. It is much better as a WiFi-connected streamer, outputting digital via Toslink/optical to a much better DAC. The built-in DAC is pretty much for casual use. That said, the WiiM analog output is useful with small systems and some headphones. I've tried it on a decent system using both analog out to amplifier input and optical output thru a good DAC then amp. The sound quality difference is easily heard.
There is one thing was not be considered in comparison. What if Pi with optical out hat.. is that also makes Pi a decent streamer too? I did try that route, but with Pi's noise in the background. I just simply wouldn't suggest people try it. But I do draw my conclusion from my "old man"'s ears.
 

Brantome

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There is one thing was not be considered in comparison. What if Pi with optical out hat.. is that also makes Pi a decent streamer too? I did try that route, but with Pi's noise in the background. I just simply wouldn't suggest people try it. But I do draw my conclusion from my "old man"'s ears.
Would such a Pi based solution support the full range of Amazon Music Hd and allow casting from the amazon music app? I suspect not and that’s why for me and a good number of others the WiiM Mini connecting to a suitable DAC or amp is the most viable solution.
 

photodesignch

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Would such a Pi based solution support the full range of Amazon Music Hd and allow casting from the amazon music app? I suspect not and that’s why for me and a good number of others the WiiM Mini connecting to a suitable DAC or amp is the most viable solution.
Pi was indeed NOT Amazon Music friendly. WiiM is really the best choice if you don't want to buy the Bluesound Node for Amazon Music. The only other options (yet crippled) were Amazon Echo Link and Link Amp. (Let along Echo Link has crappy DAC as well).

However, I think when people talking about Pi solution. They were probably talking about bit perfect from UPnP and (Tidal / Qobuz). If your music source is from Qobuz, then there is nothing to worry about. Pi works perfectly as it's originally intended. For Tidal (MQA) you obviously can't decode right off from Pi. None of the Pi Hat existing would decode MQA yet! (Not I know of). Let along no Pi solution for Amazon Music either.
 

tonycollinet

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Whatever it is, Jitter depends on the cable quality, transmitting hardware, receiving hardware, potential sources of interference, and more. In this chain, WiiM Mini is a weak point. Why the hell should I connect it to my good measuring DAC even if I need a Toslink connection? Briefly, its Jitter performance is terrible. I think IFI stream is much better as shown in GoldenSound's measurements.
It's jitter performance is irrelevant. Jitter only has any influence at the DAC stage. And jitter is relevant only on inputs, not on outputs. If the toslink is an output to a DAC and the source is (for example) WIFI, then there is no jitter in the system except at the input to the DAC - and then it is the DAC jitter performance that is relevant, not the WiiM's jitter performance.

Perhaps you need to do a little more reading.
 

tonycollinet

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I am not sure what exactly you want to hear here. "Coloring" is a relative term and it can be anything or everything.

You can read the chart and tell me distortion, noises and jitters caused "coloring". But do keep in mind that even the best measured equipment out there has its coloring. That leads to "coloring" itself, it can be both measurable or unmeasurable.

This goes into deeper of the system design. You can't possibly read a couple of numbers and assume that's what "coloring" means. Because every component within a Dac, every piece of software matters. Hence! I think what caused "coloring" can not be answered. I will just take the results and compare between different dacs with it's own coloring.
Holy hell we've got a live one.


Here is a hint for you - there is only phase, frequency, amplitude, noise and distortion**. If colouring is anything, it must be present in one or more of those, and all can be measured well below the level of audibility.

This is basic physics. Woo is not needed in audio - nor does it exist.

** and noise/distortion can only be phase/frequency/amplitude.
 

Jim Shaw

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Holy hell we've got a live one.
One? Among audiophiles, there's no shortage of Tarot card believers keeping their readings rock steady on a flat Earth.
 

Brantome

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Pi was indeed NOT Amazon Music friendly. WiiM is really the best choice if you don't want to buy the Bluesound Node for Amazon Music. The only other options (yet crippled) were Amazon Echo Link and Link Amp. (Let along Echo Link has crappy DAC as well).
Just for info, there are other platforms that do support bit perfect AMHD as well as Bluesound, such as Denon/Marantz/Heos (I briefly used a Heos Link HS2), Auralic and others :)
 
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You guys can question @amirm views but now that I actually used this I tend to agree while it’s convenient it’s not really that great to deserve a whole hearted recommendation from asr yet
 

Jim Shaw

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You guys can question @amirm views but now that I actually used this I tend to agree while it’s convenient it’s not really that great to deserve a whole hearted recommendation from asr yet
The unit, as stated by Amir, is not recommended only because it doesn't speak Roon. Many of us do not think that speaking Roon is necessary for a WiFi to digital streamer recommendation.

I can sort of understand that someone with a music system that costs more than a Mercedes Benz might be reluctant to insert a hundred-dollar device into the signal path of their luxury player. They should eat cake... :)
 
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The unit, as stated by Amir, is not recommended only because it doesn't speak Roon. Many of us do not think that speaking Roon is necessary for a WiFi to digital streamer recommendation.

I can sort of understand that someone with a music system that costs more than a Mercedes Benz might be reluctant to insert a hundred-dollar device into the signal path of their luxury player. They should eat cake... :)
The WiiM streamer for a Tidal user is not yet an optimal solution. It’s convenient yes , but at price of sound quality.
a. I can’t get it to play 24 bit 192 on my topping e50 best I can get is 24 bit 96 even though e50 over optical is capable of 24/192
b. It does not sound as good as usb to Mac to e50 with full Mqa rendering
c. My post said it’s not yet worthy, once they allow Mqa pass through I’m sure it reaches the potential, but as of now it’s a compromise to sound quality for both roon and tidal users
 

Smartplug

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The WiiM streamer for a Tidal user is not yet an optimal solution. It’s convenient yes , but at price of sound quality.
a. I can’t get it to play 24 bit 192 on my topping e50 best I can get is 24 bit 96 even though e50 over optical is capable of 24/192
b. It does not sound as good as usb to Mac to e50 with full Mqa rendering
c. My post said it’s not yet worthy, once they allow Mqa pass through I’m sure it reaches the potential, but as of now it’s a compromise to sound quality for both roon and tidal users
How do you get 24/96? I have tidal hifi plus and only get 24/44 or 16/44 on wiim. I have same dac as you.
 

Jim Shaw

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How do you get 24/96? I have tidal hifi plus and only get 24/44 or 16/44 on wiim. I have same dac as you.
The WiiM streamer for a Tidal user is not yet an optimal solution. It’s convenient yes , but at price of sound quality.
a. I can’t get it to play 24 bit 192 on my topping e50 best I can get is 24 bit 96 even though e50 over optical is capable of 24/192
b. It does not sound as good as usb to Mac to e50 with full Mqa rendering
c. My post said it’s not yet worthy, once they allow Mqa pass through I’m sure it reaches the potential, but as of now it’s a compromise to sound quality for both roon and tidal users
Since when does optimal = recommended? And MQA is a lame duck... just wait a while. Few if any totally new DACs are supporting it. It's like DSD: it was an idea when we had PCM bandwidth and media limitations. Now, not so much. No matter how tricky codecs get, lossy codecs are lossy.

Also, there seem to be many DACs that can do 24/192 over USB; it seems not so many can achieve it via optical.
 
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