Why you can't trust audio measurements by GoldenSound

[tuga]

The measuring equipment is based on various sciences, as is the audio gear being tested and almost everything around you in your modern life. Without science you would not have a smartphone for example... geddit?


JSmith

Are you joking?

 

[theREALdotnet]

The measuring equipment is based on various sciences, as is the audio gear being tested and almost everything around you in your modern life.

Well said! In fact, every Internet forum should have “science” in the name, they wouldn’t exist without science. Even the anti-science ones.

 

[Axo1989]

Are you joking?

Yes, but is it intentional?

 

[amirm]

Forgive me ahead of time.
But why is that word in the sites name then?
Shouldn't it be "audio testing review"?

The original charter of the forum did not involve reviewing and testing of gear. That came later. Note that interpretation of measurements is very much science based.

 

[Lambda]

The automated mode is there for factory go/no go testing. They connect a device, push a button and a result is generated for crude pass fail results. The output has many limitations including formatting of the graphs. It also has no ability to generate the dashboard which is core to every test i and now others run.

How is it "crude"?
go/no go testing is just one of the options saying it is only for crude pass fail results would be a lie.
The Output can be customized and even be in MS Word format and post processable.

It also has no ability to generate the dashboard which is core to every test i and now others run.

If you want the dashboard look you can still take a screenshot of this.
but the automated report can contain all the information that is in than dashboard and way more.

 

[Urvile]

It's engineering, and science.

A physician, a civil engineer, and a computer scientist were arguing about what was the oldest profession in the world. The physician remarked, "Well, in the Bible, it says that God created Eve from a rib taken out of Adam. This clearly required surgery, and so I can rightly claim that mine is the oldest profession in the world."

The civil engineer interrupted, and said, "But even earlier in the book of Genesis, it states that God created the order of the heavens and the earth from out of the chaos. This was the first and certainly the most spectacular application of civil engineering. Therefore, fair doctor, you are wrong: mine is the oldest profession in the world."

The computer scientist leaned back in her chair, smiled, and then said confidently, "Ah, but who do you think created the chaos?"

 

[TheTalbotHound]

Once more let me show the superiority of my measurement documentations and why it is relatively easy to replicate them:

View attachment 201670

Notice how I have overridden the default THD+N heading in the above measurement and clearly indicated both the sample rate and bandwidth which are critical information for this measurement. And of course there is text on the graph itself, further indicating what is there and why.

Here is the same measurement from Goldensound:

See the problem? No indication of device tested. No bandwidth. No sample rate. Nothing. His measurement as a result can NOT be replicated. Mine can. Importantly you cant compare his results to mine -- precisely for issues he talks about in his video!!!

There is a page before the measurement itself showing the details of the test that you put in the title. It is presented differently, but all the test information is in the document.

The other criticisms may be valid, but to accuse him of not providing the information you provide is incorrect. 90khz bandwidth here, with a 192khz signal.

edit: screenshot looks a bit pixellated here but if you open the image out in a new tab the text is readable.

 

[sam_adams]

Poor Marvey. He fails to realize that having a machine gun, too, doesn't make him John McClane.

From here.

Measurement bandwidth? Sample rate? FFT length? Window function? Measurement point number? Filter settings? Resistor type?

L30 - 300Ω load

Different scaling, same non-existent test info:

L30 - HD650

Apples to oranges . . .

Different measurement criteria and scaling. No test criteria.:

Jotunheim 1 - HD650

This is from his L30 'test':

Amateur mistakes lead to amateur conclusions.

All hat, no cattle. As they say in Texas.

 

[SIY]

Automated testing takes far less effort than bench mode. Don't you think that I would use it if i would given the frequency of my reviews?

The automated mode is there for factory go/no go testing. They connect a device, push a button and a result is generated for crude pass fail results. The output has many limitations including formatting of the graphs. It also has no ability to generate the dashboard which is core to every test i and now others run.

Your ignorance of how the measurements work and nefarious intentions you love to read into my work is a bad combination. I suggest you first try to learn the topic before rambling on like this.

I tried explaining that and got nowhere. Good luck.

Looking forward to him presenting a full set of tests and results run the way HE thinks is the correct way. Not holding my breath, but there could be a pleasant surprise.

 

[amirm]

There is a page before the measurement itself showing the details of the test that you put in the title. It is presented differently, but all the test information is in the document.

It is not. None of the conditions of the device under test are in that report as AP can't possibly know that. Again, example:

Nor is there a cursor there indicating peak performance as I have here. Also, there is no label as I have for each channel. All of this is there not just for documentation but also thought that I put into each measurement, what I am doing, and why.

In addition, I play with scales, size of the graph, etc. to optimize information conveyance. Compare all of this with what you quoted from him:

He doesn't even know to use dB as the vertical scale. As if he or you all are going to remember all those decimal places.

Look at this graph of linearity:

See how compressed it is horizontally, completely squashing resolution in X axis? This is what batch configuration does to you with every graph the same size in AP report. Look again at my linearity measurments:

See how I have clearly documented the characteristics of the device under test, including the critical volume level. And the fact that the graph is sized wide enough to see real variations all the way down to -80 dB.

See how he has kept the default useless AP label where the viewer has no idea what it means. While I have put a large label indicating what you should pay attention to.

What I have been quoting from him is the Gustard X18 measurement. He has no measurement corresponding to this that I ran:

Look at the rich set of documentation again in the graph.

I spend a ton of time analyzing each measurement and post processing the results and proper summary in the graphs. It is not just an instrumentation dump as he is doing. The measurements are quick. This stuff is not.

In summary you are getting a full custom set of measurements in every review I do. It is not a blind push a button and create a whole bunch of measurements as he is doing.

What is there in that report is a bunch of useless stuff that people's eyes glaze over and hence, never read. Go ahead and tell me what you got out of this you quoted:

Did you notice the start frequency is 22 Hertz? Why is it not 20 Hz? What did you learn from "generator level -20 dBFS?" Did he really test the unit at less than full scale, 0 dBFS? What good is "DC Offset: 0.000 D?" You think that applies to that measurement?

You didn't read any of this, did you? You just ignored them as I mentioned above. Instead, you are impressed that useless information is there but missed that critical information about the device under test, was not.

What you are advocating is sloppy reporting based on volume of stuff, than quality of what is presented. Anytime I see AP reports like above, I know that a) it is going to be hard to interpret due to lack of documentation and b) wreaks of laziness.

Go ahead and tell me that you think his measurement set is more informative, easier to read and understand, than mine: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/gustard-x18-review-stereo-dac.28988/

Until then you are wasting my time with these protests.

 

[amirm]

I tried explaining that and got nowhere. Good luck.

Looking forward to him presenting a full set of tests and results run the way HE thinks is the correct way. Not holding my breath, but there could be a pleasant surprise.

How right you are. He has never used the tool once yet he is lecturing us on how we are supposed to do it.

 

[amirm]

How is it "crude"?
go/no go testing is just one of the options saying it is only for crude pass fail results would be a lie.
The Output can be customized and even be in MS Word format and post processable.

Now you getting personal? You have never used the tools so you are in no position to make any of these remarks let alone get insulting and obnoxious that way. How many of his reviews have you read and what did you get out of them that you don't get out of mine?

MS word format and post process? Did you really write that? How confused can you be about this topic to say that? Just because you googled and read a bit of the manual doesn't make you a skilled operator with the tool.

 

[amirm]

Let me conclude with this. My tests have gotten scrutinized by hundreds of smart people including many in the industry. They reflect the best that can be done to test and document a device. They are not meant to include every test, any more than someone reviewing a car measures the dimensions of the tire for you and put it in a "report." Not one person has identified what they see lacking in my reviews, yet I have shown a ton that is missing in Golden's measurements. Ton of stuff he complained about in his video are addressed by me already in the way I report the data. He himself on the other hand, doesn't follow his own advice, let alone mine.

We have dedicated threads for complaining about my measurements. I am going to close this as it is clear folks can't keep their cool and keep protesting for the sake of protesting.