which headphones do you recommend?

[Robbo99999]

I was referring only to the image and soundstage of the video
I heard an instrument high up behind me to my right in the room did you perceive it?

I'm too tired to listen to your video at the moment, it's late here. For videos, I think you have to be careful - if you're watching the video at the same time as listening to it, then your mind will build sound cues from what you see on the screen, and will be heavily influenced by that, so I think if you're gonna be using Youtube vids to listen to music in terms of assessing the soundstage then you're gonna have to shut your eyes through the whole song.

EDIT: and I'm not sure that you re-listening to the track with your eyes closed will erase that prior perception you had, you'll likely remember where to expect that instrument and your brain might just place it there.

EDIT#2: I think it is possible to perceive that you hear something behind you in 2-channel music. There's a few tracks I can think of where I hear some effects behind me (it's rare), but that happens more clearly & reliably with my speaker setup (but I can't remember if I hear it the same way everytime I listen to the track), to a lesser extent with headphones. I think some of those effects I mention are designed to sound like that, I think they intentionally bake in rough HRTF effects into those effects - either by trial & error on the producers part by sound experimentation or maybe something more sophisticated, I'm guessing.

EDIT#3: to assess soundstage, not only when watching Youtube vids do you need your eyes closed, but even just listening to a track if you don't have your eyes closed then I think it's hard or impossible to visualise the soundstage because having your eyes open will clash with the visual representation of the music space - afterall having your eyes open you're perceiving reality of your environment, but recorded music is a kind of imaginary construct if you will that's unrelated to your physical environment that you find yourself in - therefore to be absorbed into the imaginary construct of the recorded music you have to shut your eyes to remove yourself from your immediate physical environment - that's what I find anyway. (You also can't be moving your head around a lot either, because there's no head tracking process, so that will probably not allow your brain to make sense of any soundstage you hear in the music otherwise.)

 

[majingotan]

Is that after you've EQ'd all of them, or instead comparing them at their stock frequency response? Aeon X Closed is a lot closer to Harman than the Aeon X Open though, and also looks easier to EQ to Harman. (Crossing out the previous sentence, I was looking at the wrong Oratory pdf file, Aeon Open X looks pretty darn good at stock, certainly in terms of an easy EQ to Harman). I might keep my eyes open re an Aeon Open X for myself in the future, although they're $529+import tax to the UK currently, so I'd only consider it in a very good sale. Am I right in thinking you own the K702 & the HD560s like I do - I vaguely remember you own the K702? I think I remember you also perceive soundstage quite vividly?

I'm a proponent of non-eq sonic signature of headphones as I like to switch between multiple sources at home and my cubicle at work, and thus opt for simple as having consistent sound signature from any source. After demoing many headphones, I found that I prefer close to Harman curve in mid-range and treble and a gentle bass lift that the Open X had. In comparison to Expanse, Open X is actually a bit brighter sounding in the treble however I could still enjoy the Harman bass lift from Expanse which allows me to listen to a lower SPL than the Open X.

I own the K712 not the K702, and I perceive soundstage as wrapping around my head in sound in both K712 and the Dan Clark (K712 is more spatially distinct while Open X is more "cohesive"). The easiest track to stimulate this effect for me was the virtual barbershop. I disclose that prior to my audiophile hobby, my ears we're pretty much trained to perceive spatial cues when I used to semi-competitively play FPS games with headphones during my younger years. If you prefer both the K702 and HD560 tonally even EQed to Harman, there's a very high chance you'd prefer the Dan Clark tuning (both Closed and Open X) and they do respond to EQ immensely well (much better than K712)

 

[Robbo99999]

I'm a proponent of non-eq sonic signature of headphones as I like to switch between multiple sources at home and my cubicle at work, and thus opt for simple as having consistent sound signature from any source. After demoing many headphones, I found that I prefer close to Harman curve in mid-range and treble and a gentle bass lift that the Open X had. In comparison to Expanse, Open X is actually a bit brighter sounding in the treble however I could still enjoy the Harman bass lift from Expanse which allows me to listen to a lower SPL than the Open X.

I own the K712 not the K702, and I perceive soundstage as wrapping around my head in sound in both K712 and the Dan Clark (K712 is more spatially distinct while Open X is more "cohesive"). The easiest track to stimulate this effect for me was the virtual barbershop. I disclose that prior to my audiophile hobby, my ears we're pretty much trained to perceive spatial cues when I used to semi-competitively play FPS games with headphones during my younger years. If you prefer both the K702 and HD560 tonally even EQed to Harman, there's a very high chance you'd prefer the Dan Clark tuning (both Closed and Open X) and they do respond to EQ immensely well (much better than K712)

Ah, I see, doesn't seem like you're massively away from Harman. Right, K712, that's probably where I had that vague memory of K702. I'll keep what you say in mind re Open X.....I'd only entertain buying it in a sale though, I'll keep an eye on it.

 

[solderdude]

I was referring only to the image and soundstage of the video
I heard an instrument high up behind me to my right in the room did you perceive it?

What you hear in 'spatial properties' someone else may not. 'soundstage' (headstage) is highly personal but still somewhat related to the used headphone.

How do you hear headphone 'soundstage'

This poll is born out of a 'soundstage / imaging' discussion. I am just curious how people hear headphone 'soundstage'. Note this is with 'normal' recordings so NO binaural recordings and without any processing/plug-ins like crossfeed, stereo enhancers and 3D emulators. Just a plain...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Mulder]

Cool, the Closed X, which other headphones do you own? Do you mean after you've EQ'd all of them, or are you comparing how they are at their stock frequency response?

I mostly use the Aeon Closed X with an analog EQ. I mostly use a headphone amp designed by @solderdude in combination with the Closed X. This headphone amp uses analog switchable EQ filter modules. I'm not too fond of digital EQ because you become dependent on having a computer in the audio chain, which in turn makes listening less mobile. Solderdudes headphone amp with analog EQ is perfect in that regard. But the Aeon X is also very good even without any EQ. Most other headphones I've used have been used both with and without EQ. I still think the Closed X are the best headphones I've had, with or without EQ. With my previous headphones, after a while I was always looking for something else. There's always been something about the sound that I've grown tired of, even with EQ. Now I don't anymore, ie after I bought the Closed X. The only headphones I'm curious about these days and would like to try are the OLLO audios headphones.
EDIT: Other headphones I have own, or still own are: Sennheiser HD600, Sennheiser HD250 Linear, Sennheiser Momentum 3 (Only used as wireless), Bayerdynamig DT-770 pro, Grado SR-something. Don´t remember (Terrible useless headphone. Worst ever), AKG 701, Focal Listen (Surprisingly good seal, just a bit to dark sounding. Bought for use during public transportation, now replaced by Momentum 3)

 

[solderdude]

OLLO S5X is incoming (Feb 2023).

My main gripe with S4X and S4R is the small inner pad diameter and the microphony as well as adjustability.
Different pads and construction on the S5X.
I like the sound. Harman lovers should avoid when the goal is to use without EQ.
OLLO are intended for studio usage (the S4X also for enjoyment) though for which they work better than a lot of other studio gear (when forced to master/mix on headphones).
Closed DCA are some of the few HP's I would use without EQ. Not essential for music enjoyment.

 

[Mulder]

OLLO S5X is incoming (Feb 2023).

My main gripe with S4X and S4R is the small inner pad diameter and the microphony as well as adjustability.
I like the sound. Harman lovers should avoid when the goal is to use without EQ.
OLLO are intended for studio usage (the S4X also for enjoyment) though for which they work better than a lot of other studio gear (when forced to master/mix on headphones).
Closed DCA are some of the few HP's I would use without EQ. Not essential for music enjoyment.

I look forward to see what you think about the S5X.

 

[solderdude]

Me too !

In the € 500.- range there is a lot of competition.

 

[markanini]

The x2Hr I referenced with pics has those pretty darn horrible uncorrectable with EQ sharp peaks & dips in the treble, whilst the HD560s doesn't have that same problem (it's more correctable with EQ). The HD560s is also better extended in the bass & requires less EQ boost to hit Harman (can be another positive) - again not reflected in the Preference Score. Because basically the HD560s & X2Hr have the same Preference Score, but they're not gonna be the same headphone in their capabilities & experience.

The main flaw measurements show with Philips X2HR is the 5kHz peak. There's some chance with individual HRTF it won't sound objectionable, making it worth trying, rather than dismissed before hand for that reason.
Second 80Hz tracks closer to Harman without EQ, a result only bettered by the $300 Onkyo A800. Distorsions levels would have to be assessed with the frequency range EQed to the same elevation. The bass performance below 50Hz that you talk about matters too, but many would argue less so than 80Hz.

 

[musica]

What you hear in 'spatial properties' someone else may not. 'soundstage' (headstage) is highly personal but still somewhat related to the used headphone.

How do you hear headphone 'soundstage'

This poll is born out of a 'soundstage / imaging' discussion. I am just curious how people hear headphone 'soundstage'. Note this is with 'normal' recordings so NO binaural recordings and without any processing/plug-ins like crossfeed, stereo enhancers and 3D emulators. Just a plain...

www.audiosciencereview.com

should we consider all the tracks with these spatial effects and understand how each of us with the various headphones perceives them?

 

[solderdude]

What we should consider is that not everyone hears the same spatial cues.
This is headphone and individual and recording dependent and also visual (looking at artists performing).

 

[Robbo99999]

The main flaw measurements show with Philips X2HR is the 5kHz peak. There's some chance with individual HRTF it won't sound objectionable, making it worth trying, rather than dismissed before hand for that reason.
Second 80Hz tracks closer to Harman without EQ, a result only bettered by the $300 Onkyo A800. Distorsions levels would have to be assessed with the frequency range EQed to the same elevation. The bass performance below 50Hz that you talk about matters too, but many would argue less so than 80Hz.

You can debate those points if you want, although I don't think the ragged treble in the x2HR would do anyone any favours, but the main point was me explaining why there's more to headphones than just their Preference Score - which is what you wanted explained (of which you only quoted a small part of my post) - but job done I guess.

 

[Robbo99999]

I mostly use the Aeon Closed X with an analog EG. I mostly use a headphone amp designed by @solderdude in combination with the Closed X. This headphone amp uses analog switchable EQ filter modules. I'm not too fond of digital EQ because you become dependent on having a computer in the audio chain, which in turn makes listening less mobile. Solderdudes headphone amp with analog EQ is perfect in that regard. But the Aeon X is also very good even without any EQ. Most other headphones I've used have been used both with and without EQ. I still think the Closed X are the best headphones I've had, with or without EQ. With my previous headphones, after a while I was always looking for something else. There's always been something about the sound that I've grown tired of, even with EQ. Now I don't anymore, ie after I bought the Closed X. The only headphones I'm curious about these days and would like to try are the OLLO audios headphones.
EDIT: Other headphones I have own, or still own are: Sennheiser HD600, Sennheiser HD250 Linear, Sennheiser Momentum 3 (Only used as wireless), Bayerdynamig DT-770 pro, Grado SR-something. Don´t remember (Terrible useless headphone. Worst ever), AKG 701, Focal Listen (Surprisingly good seal, just a bit to dark sounding. Bought for use during public transportation, now replaced by Momentum 3)

That's interesting re your analog EQ amp from solderdude. As another option, if you don't want a computer or phone in the chain, then you could use a miniDSP solution for full parametric filter control, and they can operate as standalone items as analog in & analog out. I use one for TV & movie watching & music listening on my simple 2.1 channel setup. Re your DCA Closed X, I think I'm more erring towards the DCA Open X.....I think it's gonna be better for soundstage and is probably a bit more reliable from person to person and reseat to reseat given that it's an open & not closed headphone. I'll keep a loose eye out for any sales, then see.

 

[musica]

Does EQ affect the imaging and soundstage of a headphone?

 

[Jimbob54]

I was referring only to the image and soundstage of the video
I heard an instrument high up behind me to my right in the room did you perceive it?

What kind of instrument/sound? I had a listen and the instruments kind of followed the layout on the floor. Don't know if it was the recording or playback but there was some horrible sound on one of the drum /percussion instruments that distracted me a lot.

 

[Dazerdoreal]

Does EQ affect the imaging and soundstage of a headphone?

Yes.

 

[musica]

What kind of instrument/sound? I had a listen and the instruments kind of followed the layout on the floor. Don't know if it was the recording or playback but there was some horrible sound on one of the drum /percussion instruments that distracted me a lot.

it is a percussion sound
could assert castanets

 

[musica]

Yes.

Does harman curves make it better or worse?

 

[williamsol]

Agree with you.

 

[Robbo99999]

Does EQ affect the imaging and soundstage of a headphone?

Yes.

Yup, I agree! But short of using Impulcifier Project or Smyth Realizer, I find the soundstage potential of my various headphones remains the same, as in headphone model specific. Yes you can improve elements of the soundstage through EQ or worsen it, but to me each of my headphones has it's own limit in terms of what it can do re soundstage.

Does harman curves make it better or worse?

It depends what frequency response your headphone starts off with and how it interacts with your own anatomy - it would be a lottery. I don't find that Harman Curve worsens the soundstage of my headphones, at least not in terms of the added benefit of the better tonality and inclusion of clear & purposeful bass. I find that Harman Curve gives overall a greater balanced detail through the frequency range to a headphone than one that's used at stock, and I don't find it worsens the soundstage on a significant level. I should be honest & say that it's ages since I've listened to all my headphones at stock and then compared against my best Harman EQ's, but I do occasionally use HD560s without EQ and I can't say I've noticed a decrease in the soundstage properties of the headphone once EQ'd to Harman.