• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

which headphones do you recommend?

OP
M

musica

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2022
Messages
403
Likes
96
Yup, I agree! But short of using Impulcifier Project or Smyth Realizer, I find the soundstage potential of my various headphones remains the same, as in headphone model specific. Yes you can improve elements of the soundstage through EQ or worsen it, but to me each of my headphones has it's own limit in terms of what it can do re soundstage.

It depends what frequency response your headphone starts off with and how it interacts with your own anatomy - it would be a lottery. I don't find that Harman Curve worsens the soundstage of my headphones, at least not in terms of the added benefit of the better tonality and inclusion of clear & purposeful bass. I find that Harman Curve gives overall a greater balanced detail through the frequency range to a headphone than one that's used at stock, and I don't find it worsens the soundstage on a significant level. I should be honest & say that it's ages since I've listened to all my headphones at stock and then compared against my best Harman EQ's, but I do occasionally use HD560s without EQ and I can't say I've noticed a decrease in the soundstage properties of the headphone once EQ'd to Harman.
How do I know when my headphones are equalized well?
 

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
6,874
Likes
6,672
Location
UK
How do I know when my headphones are equalized well?
That's a good question & part of the problem, lol! The barriers that stand in your way are: unit to unit variation / pad wear / seal issues / specific anatomy interactions that can cause unpredictable results. Unit to Unit Variation & Pad Wear are probably the biggest issues that can cause measurements done by people like Oratory & Crinacle to have variance within their own measurements, and then you've got the same two variables that can cause your own unit of headphone to differ from the unit that was measured by them - so there's an element of unpredictability when you for instance use Oratory's EQ's (or anyone else's EQ's). You never know exactly what you're listening to in terms of measurements - not unless you buy a GRAS measurement rig and measure your own headphones, but they cost like $20,000 or something! This is why it's a good idea to buy a headphone that is known for it's low unit to unit variation, and you'd also buy fresh pads for your headphone once they start to deform too much & get too worn - this way you're minimising the chances of your unit of headphone differing greatly from the unit that was measured. (You know where to find the Oratory EQ's right?)

EDIT: once you've EQ'd your headphone you want to get to a point where it sounds great on all your music, that's how you check the result. You'd flip between different EQ's to work out what sounds best.
 
OP
M

musica

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2022
Messages
403
Likes
96
That's a good question & part of the problem, lol! The barriers that stand in your way are: unit to unit variation / pad wear / seal issues / specific anatomy interactions that can cause unpredictable results. Unit to Unit Variation & Pad Wear are probably the biggest issues that can cause measurements done by people like Oratory & Crinacle to have variance within their own measurements, and then you've got the same two variables that can cause your own unit of headphone to differ from the unit that was measured by them - so there's an element of unpredictability when you for instance use Oratory's EQ's (or anyone else's EQ's). You never know exactly what you're listening to in terms of measurements - not unless you buy a GRAS measurement rig and measure your own headphones, but they cost like $20,000 or something! This is why it's a good idea to buy a headphone that is known for it's low unit to unit variation, and you'd also buy fresh pads for your headphone once they start to deform too much & get too worn - this way you're minimising the chances of your unit of headphone differing greatly from the unit that was measured. (You know where to find the Oratory EQ's right?)

EDIT: once you've EQ'd your headphone you want to get to a point where it sounds great on all your music, that's how you check the result. You'd flip between different EQ's to work out what sounds best.
are there any techniques for equalizing a song starting from the harman curve?
 

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
6,874
Likes
6,672
Location
UK
are there any techniques for equalizing a song starting from the harman curve?
You can find the Oratory EQ's here:
You can then use the user customisation filters which are at the bottom of his pdf to change the sound to how you like - you'd start by getting the bass right, then you might tweak some of the other variables, following is a view of the bottom of his pdf for the HD560s headphone, the user customisation filters are the ones circled in red:
customisation filters (HD560s).jpg

Of course you'd enter all of those filters into your EQ, but the user customisation filters (circled red) are the ones that you'd tweak/change to match your best listening experience when listening to music.
 

Mulder

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 2, 2020
Messages
624
Likes
871
Location
Gothenburg, Sweden
That's interesting re your analog EQ amp from solderdude. As another option, if you don't want a computer or phone in the chain, then you could use a miniDSP solution for full parametric filter control, and they can operate as standalone items as analog in & analog out. I use one for TV & movie watching & music listening on my simple 2.1 channel setup. Re your DCA Closed X, I think I'm more erring towards the DCA Open X.....I think it's gonna be better for soundstage and is probably a bit more reliable from person to person and reseat to reseat given that it's an open & not closed headphone. I'll keep a loose eye out for any sales, then see.
I have not heard the DCA Open X, but most who have and can compare seems to prefer the closed version. I need for the most a closed headphone so the Open X is not really an alternative. If and when I will look for an open alternative I will look for something else than Open X. As I mentioned earlier, maybe Ollo Audio.
 
Last edited:

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
6,874
Likes
6,672
Location
UK
I have not heard the DCA Open X, but most who have and can compare seems to prefer the closed version. I need for the most a closed headphone so the Open X is not really an alternative. If and when I will look for an open alternative I will look for something else than Open X. As I mentioned earlier, maybe Ollo Audio.
This is Open X being measured by Oratory (stock frequency response on left and the EQ'd result on the right):
DCA Open X (Oratory).jpg


You say that most seem to prefer the Closed X instead of the Open X. Did you notice any trends in why, in terms of what they described? Did you see many comparisons people made after both had been EQ'd to the same target curve? (That last question is asking a lot, I'd be surprised if many people have actually done that, lol, but that would be my usage).
 

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
6,874
Likes
6,672
Location
UK
@musica , have you made any decisions yet regarding which headphone you might buy, or are you instead going to experiment with EQ on your existing HD600 and X2HR?
 

Mulder

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 2, 2020
Messages
624
Likes
871
Location
Gothenburg, Sweden
This is Open X being measured by Oratory (stock frequency response on left and the EQ'd result on the right):
View attachment 257102

You say that most seem to prefer the Closed X instead of the Open X. Did you notice any trends in why, in terms of what they described? Did you see many comparisons people made after both had been EQ'd to the same target curve? (That last question is asking a lot, I'd be surprised if many people have actually done that, lol, but that would be my usage).
This is just my general impression. I haven't done any deeper research to find out what others think.
 

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
6,874
Likes
6,672
Location
UK
I will experiment with the EQ on the 2 headphones I have
I think that's fair enough, you can gain a lot from using EQ. The HD600 is a very good headphone even without EQ in terms of it's balance & tonality, along with the beautifully smooth mids that adds quality to voices and instruments. Ok the soundstage & imaging of the HD600 aren't very good, but some people do not put much weight on that - certainly the HD600 has some good plus points and it's for sure an iconic headphone that is just worth owning. And the X2HR has a bit of a reputation for good soundstage, so it's certainly fair enough that you should experiment with EQ before you buy any other headphones.

EDIT: when I was experimenting with EQ'ing the HD600 I found that it retained it's best qualities by simply adding just a small boost to the bass, following is the parametric filter to use:
  • Low Shelf, 75Hz, Q0.71, +3dB.
I felt using that blended seamlessly into the rest of the frequency response and still allowed the HD600 to retain it's unEQ'd "ethos". (Haven't listened to this headphone for ages, but googled an older ASR post to find my impressions of that little EQ change.)
 
Last edited:

sejarzo

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
961
Likes
1,066
I have owned a number of headphones over the years, and now I have the HD6XX (after selling an old HD600), K371, and HE400i (I think the 2016 version...bought them used.)

Based on that, I would suggest you get the K371 and use EQ. I bought my K371 used and don't understand the comments about iffy build quality--mine are just fine. The fact that the cable enters the left earcup is a bit of a pain due to my desk setup right now (just too lazy to swap things around, I guess!)

As for imaging and soundstage, perhaps the K371 isn't the greatest, but if you want to listen to some bass heavy program material, the relative lack of harmonic distortion in the low end makes live rock recordings sound more realistic to me.

That being said, from the results of the poll when I took it, I am one of the 9-10% of folks who tend to hear things to the sides and rear when listening to well recorded orchestral material on headphones without any visual cues. It's almost as if I am standing in the front row of the balcony with my back to the orchestra, but with them in a mirror image of how they normally are seated (violins are still to my left, double bass/low brass to my right.) The famous/infamous Virtual Barbershop binaural recording sounds as if it's all to my sides and rear. When he "goes over the top" of the binaural head with the clippers, it circles around behind and level with my ears. I sense nothing in front of me--and that's with any over the ear or IEM headphone I have used. As solderdudes notes, soundstaging and imaging vary a huge amount between users.

EDIT: And finally, I believe it's impossible to know that your headphones are "properly EQ'd" from listening to a few particular recordings. I tend to focus on whether some minimally miked orchestral/classical recordings sound tonally correct, based on my live listening experience, and then use that as a baseline. The "tilt" of multi-miked pop/rock recordings varies from ridiculously exaggerated bass to unlistenable hot treble, so I use a parametric EQ plug-in in Foobar to adjust those all the time.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom