What's my weakest link? What's the cheapest way to get >90% 'of the way there'?

[johnp98]

I have a Marantz SR7002 receiver that I connect via a semi long 10ft HDMI to my laptop which runs Tidal in "Exclusive mode" for two channel listening. I am just wondering what people think would be the 'weak link' in my setup (I have high sensitivity DIY speakers and two DIY subs set up very well that image wonderfully and the room optimized as best as I can, and thus working my way back up the chain).

I have been looking at reviews on these forms and it seems that Marantz does not measure the greatest in general. Do you think this is audible and hence now the weakest part of my system? Also, is it that the DAC or the amp in the Marantz that is generally felt to be poor (trying to get direction if I were to only upgrade one part, what would it be)? Do people think that going to separates would be the biggest upgrade... and if so, getting a better and dedicated DAC, or a better and dedicated amp first?

DAC
What would be the cheapest DAC that people would still recommend that gets >90% of the way there?
(As it seems that people have mentioned that getting a really good DAC is not that expensive (if you dont care about the brand/cosmetics/etc) thus I was looking for specific suggestions.)

Amp
What would be the cheapest amp that people would still recommend that gets >90% of the way there (or could/should I just use the Marantz as only an amp if I upgraded the DAC)?

Computer to DAC
Is running Tidal in Exclusive mode via a semi long 10-12ft HDMI of concern? Should I try and shorten up the HDMI length. Or should I really try and change over to USB or S/PDIF (as I have gotten the sense from these forms that asynchronous USB seems to measure the best?)

Interested in anyone's thoughts / suggestions.
Thanks!

 

[boselover61]

Speakers -> room-> amp -> contents -> dac ->>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cables

 

[boselover61]

My honest opinion. I assume you already have some decent speakers. Get a denon x3700h. Hook up speakers, buy the audyssey app, make a reference curve that you like, run the software on denon then call it a day. Thats as good as you can get

 

[johnp98]

My honest opinion. I assume you already have some decent speakers. Get a denon x3700h. Hook up speakers, buy the audyssey app, make a reference curve that you like, run the software on denon then call it a day. Thats as good as you can get

Thanks for the suggestion.
Yeah I have a UMIK-1 and REW to optimize and EQ my subs.
I have heard that messing around with your mains with EQ often is of no benefit and potential harm.

 

[boselover61]

Thanks for the suggestion.
Yeah I have a UMIK-1 and REW to optimize and EQ my subs.
I have heard that messing around with your mains with EQ often is of no benefit and potential harm.

Id say at least eq the room modes out. Then cherry picking and try to fix dips and peaks. Some speakers have nasty dips around the 2k region and it would be unpleasant to leave them as is l. I dont think you can improve your setup any further sans a speaker upgrade. Marantz doesnt measure well but its not audible.

 

[JohnYang1997]

How do you feel about your system at the moment? Why do you feel the need to upgrade? I suspect the speakers are still the weak link. Some subjective eq tuning may help, I think.
Your AVR shouldn't be the issue unless you can hear hiss out of speakers, or your AVR runs out of power going into clipping when you turn it up.

 

[johnp98]

How do you feel about your system at the moment? Why do you feel the need to upgrade? I suspect the speakers are still the weak link. Some subjective eq tuning may help, I think.
Your AVR shouldn't be the issue unless you can hear hiss out of speakers, or your AVR runs out of power going into clipping when you turn it up.

Yeah I have gone from not knowing anything technical about audio and its reproduction pre COVID to now having read books by Floyd Toole and Earl Geddes, making two DIY speakers and subs, learning how to use REW and optimize the room and multi subs.
I am loving the music and the system that I now have, but I have not done tons of research into amps/dacs etc and thus I don't know if there would be substantial gains in going down that road, or if the speakers and room is where most of the optimization occurs.

Anyways, just making sure I am not missing out on anything substantial, as I have had substantial improvements by learning about and improving speakers, the room, positioning, etc.

 

[preload]

Speakers -> room-> amp -> contents -> dac ->>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cables

speakers >>>>>> room >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loudspeaker cables >>>>> amp (solid-state) > DAC > digital source

 

[boselover61]

speakers >>>>>> room >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loudspeaker cables >>>>> amp (solid-state) > DAC > digital source

Thats more like the order to have a functional setup rather than order of importance

 

[voodooless]

Your speakers are DIY. How did you create the crossover? Crossover point, directivity? Did you verify with measurements? What’s the result? What about enclosure, reflex tuning (if applicable)?

I have heard that messing around with your mains with EQ often is of no benefit and potential harm.

As with most things you’ll need to know what your doing.

 

[Wes]

even a cheap modern DAC can get you to a place where it is highly unlikely that you will be able to hear a difference - I'd call that 100% of the way there

but you can also get a replacement integrated amp with a good DAC built in

 

[johnp98]

Your speakers are DIY. How did you create the crossover? Crossover point, directivity? Did you verify with measurements? What’s the result? What about enclosure, reflex tuning (if applicable)?
.

I got the HTM-12 speakers from DIYSG and used their crossover as crossover design would be beyond my expertise.
I went a little overboard for the fun of it with the cabinets and made a floating constrained layer dampening inner box and extra bracing to help with any box resonances.
I made two VBSS boxes for two 18" sub drivers and they certainly work quite well.

I have been looking into a a 20-30 PPI foam waveguide plug as that is what Geddes uses on is waveguides and then measuring and seeing if my high end can handle the extra dampening that comes from it. But not too sure if that will have any effect, and even if it does not, I am happy with the speakers that I have.

The main reservation I have about EQing the speakers (as opposed to the subs), is that I would have to use Audyssey and I am not too sure how much I trust it. I certainly could use equalizer APO, but then that would override the source direct output of Tidal (would it not?) which I think would not be worth any potential benefits.

 

[voodooless]

I got the HTM-12 speakers from DIYSG and used their crossover as crossover design would be beyond my expertise.

Ah, that seems like a nice kit! Here is the frequency response of the thing: http://www.hificircuit.com/community/threads/htm-speaker-kits.609/ looks pretty good! There is a small dip at 3khz that might be fixed with EQ, otherwise whatever room correction could be applied.

I would tend to agree with boselover61: get the Denon. It will give you room correction and has quite good specs for the money. If surround is not the objective however, there might be other options as well.

 

[watchnerd]

Speakers -> room-> amp -> contents -> dac ->>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cables

I actually put it as:

1. Content
2. Room
3. Transducers (speakers, headphones, cartridges, microphones)
4. EQ


DACs, amps, and cables don't even make my list at all, as long as they're meeting competent specs for the task at hand.

 

[johnp98]

I actually put it as:

1. Content
2. Room
3. Transducers (speakers, headphones, cartridges, microphones)
4. EQ

I have been looking around this site for random artist / album / song suggestions but have not found any truly extensive lists. Do you have any suggestions (on this site or elsewhere)?
I know for dynamic range there is:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/
https://dynamicrangeday.co.uk/award/

 

[voodooless]

The main reservation I have about EQing the speakers (as opposed to the subs), is that I would have to use Audyssey and I am not too sure how much I trust it. I certainly could use equalizer APO, but then that would override the source direct output of Tidal (would it not?) which I think would not be worth any potential benefits.

Audyssey works pretty well in general. Do you actually need surround? If not, have a look at a minidsp and amp. That will give you all the EQ flexibility you want. There are also versions with Dirac if you want automated room correction.

 

[Chrispy]

I think you're overthinking things. Enjoy the music with what you've got. Nice job on the diy speakers/subs...

 

[johnp98]

I think you're overthinking things. Enjoy the music with what you've got. Nice job on the diy speakers/subs...

Yeah I also think I have obtained all the low (and some high) hanging fruit (hence why I was asking if there is anything obvious I am missing). It has been a great year of learning and building and tinkering and now I think it is time to sit back and further enjoy the fruits of my labor.

So with that being said....any good sites of album / song suggestions?

 

[TimW]

Great job with the speaker and sub choices! I have eyed the HTM-12s for a while now.

Amir reviewed Audyssey here. Looks pretty good to me if you use the version with the app.

His reviews of the recent Denon AVR's that can utilize that app also showed good performance.

I stick to two channels and use a miniDSP SHD which measures great and gives me all the flexibility I want. I allow room correction on the main speakers as well as the subs because the room has significant effect on frequency response above the crossover point between mains and subs (up to the Schroeder frequency). Then I use light corrective EQ based on nearfield measurements above the Schroeder frequency.

 

[Chrispy]

Yeah I also think I have obtained all the low (and some high) hanging fruit (hence why I was asking if there is anything obvious I am missing). It has been a great year of learning and building and tinkering and now I think it is time to sit back and further enjoy the fruits of my labor.

So with that being said....any good sites of album / song suggestions?

Each group or fora I've participated in tends to have a thread or two of favorite music being played currently, or some list of best recordings type stuff. In this one try this subforum for ideas https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?forums/music-reviews-and-discussions.18/