What will the impact of prospective -- and possibly impending -- U.S. tariffs be on audio gear?

[Chrispy]

This is a joke of course

Why is that a joke? A joke in that the origin country pays the tariffs, true, otherwise not so much.

Since the US imports quite a lot, we may be the ones who suffer a lot when the karma chameleon comes home.

Will be rather than may be....

 

[JeffS7444]

What I'd like to know is whether the "good old days" ever really happened To hear my mom talk about it, the past kinda sucked.

 

[GXAlan]

Probably the biggest thing is what @JustJones predicted.

US $200 DAC —> $250 DAC
Chinese $100 DAC —> $300 DAC

Politics will influence the glass half full or half empty perspective so I will try to present both.

1) Lose-lose for customers.
Everything just got more expensive for everyone. Companies get blamed for more expensive products but it’s really the government that is collecting a higher tax

BUT, if you take a glass half-full approach,

2) This gets people off the upgrade cycle. Remember growing up with one TV or one audio system for 15+ years? We have gotten into a cycle of upgrades when it would be better to be happy with what we have. Companies will struggle but survival of the fittest suggests that the companies that will survive are the ones with the best products. If ALL Chinese DACs are facing tariffs, people will probably pick the ones with the best display, interface, PEQ, etc.

But it’s pretty clear: buy what you are thinking about now, not later.

 

[MattHooper]

But it’s pretty clear: buy what you are thinking about now, not later.

I am seeing that advice all over the Internet, especially for the USA.

Ironic, given the USA electorate had been apparently concerned about high prices….

I am in Canada, and I’m sure we will be hit with tariffs too. Yay!

 

[Chrispy]

I am seeing that advice all over the Internet, especially for the USA.

Ironic, given the USA electorate had been apparently concerned about high prices….

I am in Canada, and I’m sure we will be hit with tariffs too. Yay!

Is pretty boy considering punitive tariffs like our bronzed one?

 

[Doodski]

Is pretty boy considering punitive tariffs like our bronzed one?

I refer to him as, "The Prince."

 

[wwenze]

If the world is a single country, there wouldn't be tariffs

Different countries exist because people have different ideals

Some companies want to minimize wages in a free market. The government of the people doesn't like that. So labor laws, SEC laws, whatever laws

Globalization happened, companies take advantage and shift to a cheaper country

The government says I'll ban you from selling here if you do that

So tariffs are country's way of asserting their ideals

USA used to have child labor, remember.

 

[Head_Unit]

I heard from a very trustworthy source

Hopefully not a politician, since they all the ones on the left are liars whereas all the ones on the right are liars.
(I assume your post was sarcastic, by the way...)
(Ah, my brain is serving up a memory: "Read my lips! No new taxes!")
I'm going to start voting for robots and animals for public office. Or the first politician to promise an "eargasmic" tube amp in every living room, a "game changer" "punching above it's weight"

 

[Chrispy]

USA used to have child labor, remember.

Changing from that was called progressive....we've come so far

 

[a4eaudio]

USA used to have child labor, remember.

Changing from that was called progressive....we've come so far

The US still has child labor and Arkansas, Kansas and Iowa loosened theirs in 2023.

After a century, states are loosening child labor laws. Where's the outrage? • Kansas Reflector

This Labor Day weekend, I'll think of Riis and other muckrakers who shamed and shocked a nation. There was a vast army of shadow workers.

kansasreflector.com

 

[a4eaudio]

2. My understanding of things like the "60% tariff on all Chinese goods" is that an Executive Order enacting such a measure would have an effective date of 9-12 months out, and it would be used as a bargaining document to initiate negotiations. So a scenario in which the US imposed huge - and, frankly, insane - tariffs on most or all Chinese produced goods, and China imposed similar retaliatory tariffs is certainly possible, but I don't think it's the most likely scenario.

Yes, I think this is a good point.

The other thing that may keep things from getting out of hand is that the administration will have strong incentives not to actually tank the economy and/or have high inflation. Even if the president cannot run for another term, he will want to have a strong legacy on the economy and will still want his successors to win the next election.

 

[Soandso]

What I'd like to know is whether the "good old days" ever really happened ....

Not sure which timeline is the reference point for '"good old days". I will say that after World War 2 in urban USA the adult male head of a married household could usually support the family performing a 40 hour per week job. Farm families and agricultural workers had to work harder for a similar amount of monetary value. My recollection is that even into the late Vietnam War years within the urban USA jobs, rents and solvency was quite available.

However that USA period in time did encompass racial employment, wage disparities and disproportionate racial poverty during and proceeding WW2. Furthermore, the increased USA social acceptance of divorce in the late 1960s and also the legislated social welfare payments only to households without an adult male additionally accelerated the loss of family cohesion. Both of which, alone or in tandem, fostered new pitfalls of generational poverty by the late 1970s.

In general the next large unanticipated step away from the post-WW2 "good old days" was the unopposed sucking away of USA manufacturing and industry jobs wherein the working class had to adjust to the USA becoming an economy more based on so-called service providing. None-the-less I, like many other Americans, made nice money on investments when globalization got up and running, so after my mid-1960s sliding into the lower middle class for me it was like the "good old days" again.

[If the alluded "good old days" timeline is pre-World War 2 and back to post US Civil War eras then I have no personal experience. That immigrants came and often the family by second generation had productive urban members seems there were times of "good old days." Of course the agricultural base was very significant and there was true rural poverty. And again there were notably large racial disparities in all contexts. I'll mention as well that time span includes before and after women got the right to vote for legislators. While Pre-Cvil War USA is not my idea of "good old days", as hardships seem to have been the life for most.]

 

[wwenze]

The economy was better for commoners when rich people were allowed to jump off skyscrapers.

Nowadays too many rules to prevent that.

 

[amirm]

So, if they can make demands if we want access to their market then why is it suddenly wrong for us to make demands if they want access to our market?

Because we are not a communist country.

 

[Galliardist]

where i am its an auto 10% on anything coming in

i suspect this is 'weaksauce' for other people where they have an auto 20% and I heard of even worse in places like Brazil where i can be fairly punative... ie. some arbitrary 50% or more?

if you buy off ebay or aliexpress you cant get around it but i have had some outliers ie. amazon in japan didnt hit me at all (do we have some FTA with Japan???)

BUT its often up to the local immigration and borders and they're under the hammer so they let in a LOT

i suspect the IRS and CBP are going to come down hard as its 60%!

10% you can sort of let pass on some stuff but 60%.... that's a big chunk!

Note that the 10% mentioned here is our GST, a sales tax applied to equivalent local products, so not a tariff.

Of course Australia does have duties and tariffs on quite a range of items. There is for example a 5% tariff on cars (and effectively a much higher tariff on cars over around $90000 AU in price in the form of a luxury car tax that our own car industry, now shut down, will never pay).

Ironically, a lot of tariffs have just been lifted here:

Tariff reform: removal of nuisance tariffs | Treasury.gov.au

The Australian Government will abolish around 500 nuisance tariffs in the biggest unilateral tariff reform in two decades to boost productivity, reduce compliance costs for businesses and ease the cost of living for Australian families by over $120 million over the next four years.

treasury.gov.au

We're nothing if not ahead of the times

 

[Soandso]

The US still has child labor ...

Link seems to call a minor in age a child if I read it correctly. At age 16 (a minor in age) in my USA town I began legally working 40 hours in 7 day weeks while attending school. In the summers I worked less total number of days per week but more hours during a work shift angling for some overtime wage. Although at a younger age I wanted better paying work other than to keep delivering newspapers I could only legally do so for a few hours per week just during summertime's school vacation. I bought the household food and mother paid our rent so I even managed to save some money for going to the state university. Some of those jobs were on my feet constantly in a factory down the road operating moving equipment with assorted potentially hazardous items and yet as best can recall my work posed no actual hardship for me. Of course fortunately this wasn't the era of child labor in mines so I'm not making light of that.

 

[GXAlan]

I found this report, which clearly comes from a biased source — but presumably provides worst case scenarios. The two scenarios represent potential U.S. tariffs.

NRF | Estimated Impacts of Proposed Tariffs on Imports: Apparel, Toys, Furniture, Household Appliances, Footwear and Travel Goods

How former proposed tariffs– a universal 10-20% tariff on imports from all foreign countries and an additional 60-100% tariff on imports specifically from China – would impact six consumer products categories

nrf.com

 

[holdingpants01]

View attachment 405139
I found this report, which clearly comes from a biased source — but presumably provides worst case scenarios. The two scenarios represent potential U.S. tariffs.

NRF | Estimated Impacts of Proposed Tariffs on Imports: Apparel, Toys, Furniture, Household Appliances, Footwear and Travel Goods

How former proposed tariffs– a universal 10-20% tariff on imports from all foreign countries and an additional 60-100% tariff on imports specifically from China – would impact six consumer products categories

nrf.com

The question is does hi-fi gear count as a toy or furniture? I guess it depends if it's powered on. Anyway, it looks like inflation will take off like a rocket (hopefully more like a SpaceX), time to buy some gold instead of a Chinese DAC

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Unintended Consequences - Econlib

The law of unintended consequences, often cited but rarely defined, is that actions of people—and especially of government—always have effects that are unanticipated or unintended. Economists and other social scientists have heeded its power for centuries; for just as long, politicians and...

www.econlib.org

 

[Esprit]

Could be quite a hit to uk exports to the U.S. as well, a possible £22b hit to our economy, I hope saner minds will prevail

The estimated damage to Italian exports is around 8 billion euros.
We will end up exporting to China instead of the United States.

P.S. However, as regards cars produced in China and sold in Europe, the European Union has established duties from 10% to 45%.
Teslas made in China will be subject to these tariffs.

And obviously China could impose duties on products, especially in the automotive sector, sold by european industries to them.