What does it take to succesfully transition to a green energy economy?

[DLS79]

Not exactly. EVs are better the slower they go. ICE cars reach a speed low enough energy use per mile increases. Around 45 to 40 mph is good, go slower and mileage goes down.

OTOH, ICE cars can increase the mileage they get by at least 200% with proper driving techniques. However, I don't think people want that. It would make for some crazy traffic.

A none trivial Part of that is because they have a transmission and can get in the right gear and rpm to maximize efficiency. That's why cars now have so many more gears than older cars.

 

[JeffS7444]

He doesn't seem to want to divulge that.

Fair 'nuff.

 

[DLS79]

He doesn't seem to want to divulge that.

Does it really matter?

 

[JeffS7444]

A none trivial Part of that is because they have a transmission and can get in the right gear and rpm to maximize efficiency. That's why cars now have so many more gears than older cars.

IC engines are kind of tricky because they typically develop maximum torque at inconveniently narrow range of equally inconvenient high RPMs, hence the need for multi-speed gearboxes. Whereas electric motors deliver maximum torque from 0 RPMs, so one or two different gear ratios is generally all you need. A modern 6+ speed automatic is worlds better than a 3-speed from the 1990s.

 

[EJ3]

Not exactly. EVs are better the slower they go. ICE cars reach a speed low enough energy use per mile increases. Around 45 to 40 mph is good, go slower and mileage goes down.

OTOH, ICE cars can increase the mileage they get by at least 200% with proper driving techniques. However, I don't think people want that. It would make for some crazy traffic.

With the 406 CI (6.8 liters) that I built for my 79 Trams Am, with a Doug/Nash 5 speed (fifth was 1/1, not an overdrive and a 3.23 final drive, the cars best fuel economy occurred around the engines torque peak, which was 21.7 MPG at 88 MPH +- 5 mph (about the current suggested speed of 140 KPH on the Autobahn in Germany [yes, I know that they are trying to lower the speed limits to accommodate the fact that most {if not all} EV's have terrible efficiencies over 81 MPH, 130 KPH]).
The Trans Am got 18 MPG at 55 MPH and 18 MPG at 110 MPH. So, if I had to drive 55 MPH (the IMHO stupid speed limit that caused people to fall asleep at the wheel & die in crashes [because it was slow enough to make you feel safe but fast enough to kill you]), I would be wasting fuel.
This 1979 Trans Am (due to my cylinder head work: at the suggestion and pattern from a then cylinder head "Guru" Pete McCarthy) also met the 1982 emission standards WITHOUT the catalytic convertor.
Proving again that the government mandating catalytic convertors at that time: stifled innovation.

 

[EJ3]

I wasn't an athlete, but I always walked a lot, and sure did love a good buffet! Still do, though I've gotten pickier about the definition of "good".

I was going to ask if you know of any chain style restaurants in the USA that have "good" buffets anymore?

 

[EJ3]

Oh, I can answer the question of the thread title.

What does it take to successfully transition to a green energy economy?

It takes green energy being the best economic decision. You manage that it will take care of itself.

The best example is wind and solar. They are close to being the best economic decision. At some point in time they will be the clear best decision whether due to improved costs of wind and solar or due to fossil fuels becoming scarce enough it costs too much.

But, fossil fuels are not at all scarce (and the United States has way more than any other country). The only fossil fuel scarcity is caused by government regulations.

 

[DLS79]

This is what I'm currently driving. However as @Blumlein 88, pointed out it's all a trade off.

It's far easier to travel in it with a family and luggage than what I would prefer to drive.
It does far better in snow and adverse weather conditions, than what i would prefer.
It's far safer than what i would prefer.

If i didn't have to care about anything other than driving myself on nice smooth roads on nice sunny days with no traffic to get in my way I'd drive one of these 2.

If I didn't have to care about traveling with my family, or getting groceries, or other household supplies etc I'd drive one of these.

And this is what my very first car looked like, but I had a V6 with hubcaps instead of rims.

 

[Doodski]

With the 406 CI (6.8 liters) that I built for my 79 Trams Am, with a Doug/Nash 5 speed (fifth was 1/1, not an overdrive and a 3.23 final drive, the cars best fuel economy occurred around the engines torque peak, which was 21.7 MPG at 88 MPH +- 5 mph (about the current suggested speed of 140 KPH on the Autobahn in Germany [yes, I know that they are trying to lower the speed limits to accommodate the fact that most {if not all} EV's have terrible efficiencies over 81 MPH, 130 KPH]).
The Trans Am got 18 MPG at 55 MPH and 18 MPG at 110 MPH. So, if I had to drive 55 MPH (the IMHO stupid speed limit that caused people to fall asleep at the wheel & die in crashes [because it was slow enough to make you feel safe but fast enough to kill you]), I would be wasting fuel.
This 1979 Trans Am (due to my cylinder head work: at the suggestion and pattern from a then cylinder head "Guru" Pete McCarthy) also met the 1982 emission standards WITHOUT the catalytic convertor.
Proving again that the government mandating catalytic convertors at that time: stifled innovation.

I just love me a nice Firebird/Trans Am. I can look at images all day of all of the years of production. Fuel economy be damned!

 

[blueone]

A modern 6+ speed automatic is worlds better than a 3-speed from the 1990s.

3-speed planetary gear automatics were mostly gone by the 1980s, except perhaps in a few inexpensive cars. 4 or 5-speed transmissions were most common in the 1990s. 8-speeds seem to be the sweet spot now for planetary gear-based units. The German manufacturers seem fascinated by double-clutch automatics, but some examples aren't very good. Double clutch autos also need more maintenance than planetary gear units.

 

[JeffS7444]

I was going to ask if you know of any chain style restaurants in the USA that have "good" buffets anymore?

Dunno about chain restaurants, but you got any casinos in your area? Might be worth looking there. In the USA, I recall a good one from decades ago on the Nevada side of Lake Tahoe. And more recently, the Sunday brunch @ Halekulani Hotel in Hawaii - highly recommended, but not cheap.

 

[EJ3]

Personal choice is a fair reason, but I'm wary of increased job-related expenses which might effectively decrease one's income. Especially as cars are often purchased on credit, and are depreciating assets.

Drive it away from the dealership and try to sell it a week later. Wow.
Exactly why I have only bought only 1 new car in my life. And I have only financed 2 cars (on used one for 2 years (I was working at a car dealership and nextdoor neighbor traded in his car to me and then I bought it, financing it for 2 years)>
The other one is a new (ordered it in February specked the way I wanted it for my wife) 2024 CrossTrek. I put a substantial amount down & financed the rest through a credit union for 4 years. Then I paid that through January 15th, 2025. When that rolls around, I will pay another full year (and if everything goes well, I'll pay it off).

 

[JeffS7444]

View attachment 398193

As an adolescent, I really, really wanted one of those "fox" platform cars, and I knew exactly how I wanted it optioned: As a 3-door, with turbo 2.3L, manual trans, Recaro seat option, and those 3-spoke, 390 mm wheels w/Michelin TRX tires. And I eventually got it, more or less. But today, I'm more accustomed to cars like Mazda's MX5, and that old Mustang would feel really large and heavy by comparison.

 

[Blumlein 88]

He doesn't seem to want to divulge that.

I'll divulge more than that in a bit as an illustration about the navel gazing here.

 

[DLS79]

Dunno about chain restaurants, but you got any casinos in your area? Might be worth looking there. In the USA, I recall a good one from decades ago on the Nevada side of Lake Tahoe. And more recently, the Sunday brunch @ Halekulani Hotel in Hawaii - highly recommended, but not cheap.

Casinos (good ones any way), and cruise ships still have excellent buffets.

The chain buffets that were in business in the late 70's, 80's and 90's are all dead and gone, or rotting husks of what they once were.

 

[JeffS7444]

I just love me a nice Firebird/Trans Am. I can look at images all day of all of the years of production. Fuel economy be damned!

I used to work at an ecological-products company, and my coworkers were idealistic kids from wealthy families who made their money from car dealerships, shopping malls, and that sort of thing. Used to tease them that, rather than buying an electric car, I ought to buy a black 1977 Smokey & the Bandit Trans-Am (6.6L V8!), because mine would be a lightly-used secondhand toy, not a daily "necessity", and hence, "greener than thou"!

 

[DLS79]

As an adolescent, I really, really wanted one of those "fox" platform cars, and I knew exactly how I wanted it optioned: As a 3-door, with turbo 2.3L, manual trans, Recaro seat option, and those 3-spoke, 390 mm wheels w/Michelin TRX tires. And I eventually got it, more or less. But today, I'm more accustomed to cars like Mazda's MX5, and that old Mustang would feel really large and heavy by comparison.

For some reason the SVO's didn't sell well. Ford made less than 10,000 of them across the 3 years they were in production. I think it was because at the time a lot of Americans had negative views about 4 cylinders.

 

[JeffS7444]

For some reason the SVO's didn't sell well. Ford made less than 10,000 of them across the 3 years they were in production. I think it was because at the time a lot of Americans had negative views about 4 cylinders.

Oh, I know that particular car very well (former 1986 SVO owner here): Not the last word in refinement! The 2.3L intercooled turbo was powerful for it's time, but not smooth like a good Japanese twin-cam. That car is also why I now want reduced mass, especially in areas like the suspension.

 

[EJ3]

All cars do to an extent, as drag is proportional to velocity squared.

You can get great economy at great speeds in ICE cars. Pick a speed that you want to get great economy at and have it geared to make peak torque at that speed and IF the peak torque is enough to be able to push the car through the air at that speed, then you will get great fuel economy at that speed. So having a plateau shaped torque curve is beneficial.
Using this technique with a suitably modified 1988 US model Honda CRX (using the European versions double overhead cam cylinder head (requiring a European style hood to fit over the new valve cover), five way adjustable struts and larger Heim jointed anti-sway bars and high performance (at the time: 1988) Yokohama 008 tires (all to minimize the cars body motions, helping it's fuel economy).
This car got 31.5 MPG at an average speed of 92 MPH average speed. Considering that it's best economy of 33 MPG was at 78 MPH, a slightly taller tire or taller final gearing would have very likely made the 33 MPG at the 92 MPH average speed.
As to gearing EV gearing, Chevrolet has an after market EV setup for their older (Classic?) vehicles that works through a 4 speed overdrive transmission> It's something that I have not personally tried but I have heard that it is pretty interesting.

 

[EJ3]

This is what I'm currently driving. However as @Blumlein 88, pointed out it's all a trade off.

It's far easier to travel in it with a family and luggage than what I would prefer to drive.
It does far better in snow and adverse weather conditions, than what i would prefer.
It's far safer than what i would prefer.
View attachment 398189

If i didn't have to care about anything other than driving myself on nice smooth roads on nice sunny days with no traffic to get in my way I'd drive one of these 2.
View attachment 398190
View attachment 398191

If I didn't have to care about traveling with my family, or getting groceries, or other household supplies etc I'd drive one of these.
View attachment 398192


And this is what my very first car looked like, but I had a V6 with hubcaps instead of rims.
View attachment 398193

If those are the rims I am thinking of. tire choice is quit limited?