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What are the best headphones you would recommend in the $100-$250 range? What headphones do you have?

Karu

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#81
Here are some of my findings regarding the pressed dome and a 'veiled' HD650.

You have to scroll down to the bottom part of the article.
So would you guess this is regular sample to sample variation (what you showed between the “veiled” and other pair). Why I am asking is if then also the measured difference of 650 and 6XX could also be variance from one pair to another?
 

solderdude

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#82
The HD650's I heard in the past I never heard as dark or veiled.

Sonarworks found there were some odd ones out there and they describe the exact same differences I found in this one.
You can find the article at SBAF (alas the plots are no longer there)

It seems to be solved now. Never heard nor measured a HD6XX but AFAIK they are HD650 with a different (cheaper) paint job and shorter cable.
 

Tup3x

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#83
For what it's worth my HD 6XX sounds much brighter than my HD 660 S and it's definitely not veiled or dark. The HD 660 S has "under the ground" style sound when switching between the two. For that reason sibilant sounds are emphasized more even though there might not be much difference there between the two (that being said some things sound oddly veiled). It sounds much darker than I remembered - I've tried it twice in two different shops. Mine is the 2019 refresh version. My HD 6XXs are about two years old and made in Ireland.
 

solderdude

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#84
HD650 vs HD660S


As can be seen the HD660S has about 3dB less 'clarity' in the 2-5kHz area.
Sibilance is in the 6kHz area.
 

solderdude

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#86
That may be a personal choice.
The HD660S has a 'tighter' bass to me which isn't obvious from the FR plot. Some people prefer the slight 'dip' between 2-4kHz and find the HD650 too 'forward'.
I would have liked to see a HD655 with HD660S bass and the 'smoother' treble of the HD650.
Anyway both sound good to me but are not my top choices yet still right up there.
VFM wise the HD650 is the better choice.
 

Count Arthur

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#88
I haven't heard that many headphones, maybe a dozen or so, over the years and most of those have been lower cost, under £50, on ear and in ear types for portable listening and certainly nowhere near as many as Solderdude has heard. However, I have had a pair of HD650s for 15 or 20 years and I would never describe them as forward.

I really like the HD650 and I've been very happy with them, I always thought that they are just about right and I've favoured the lower cost portable heaphones that I thought sounded closest to them.

Some that spring to mind:

Koss Porta Pro - Similar overall balance, but a bit rougher around the edges. Hardly surprising, given the price difference.
Jays V-Jays - Simalar to the Koss, but more refined.
Philips Fidelio M1MKII - Nice sounding headphones, but I wouldn't recommend them as the ear pads fall apart after a few months and Philips don't supply replacements. Fortunately, the cheap copies I found on Ebay and have outlasted the originals and are still going strong.
Final E2000 - The nicest in ear monitors I've tried so far - I haven't tried any of the higher priced, balanced armature types.

This is all just subjective, I haven't compared measurements, frequency plots, etc., but I'd say that, like the HD650, they are all fairly full, rich, warm sounding headphones. I really don't like harsh treble or strident mids and I find headphones that have too much "up top" to be unpleasant, especially if combined with a "thin" bottom end. I never use any filtering, mods or EQ, I run everything as it comes using the bit perfect setting on both my home and my portable DAC.

Only very recently have I bought another pair of full sized headphones; a pair of Focal Clear, and what I like about them is that they are like the HD650, but "more", deeper, tighter bass, more presence in the mid range and more clarity all at the same time. However, I wouldn't want to go beyond the clarity of the Focals, I think any more would be too much.

That was all a bit of a long ramble, but unless their ears are very different to mine, I don't think anyone could dislike the HD650s. It's probably why they've been around, unchanged, for so long and why I held off trying to find something better for 15 years or so.
 

solderdude

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#89
I have the V-Jays as well and the KSC35 and the KSC75 which are very similar to the Portapro.
I prefer the KSC35 the most and transplanted the silicone earclips of the KSC7X on the KSC35.
The KSC7X as well as the current KSC75 aren't as 'good' as the older ones for some reason.
Koss claims they did not change anything but it looks like they did.

I don't find the HD650 forward but there are those that do, especially the HD600 is found to be too 'hot' in the 3kHz range.
This was the most heard 'complaint' by Sennheiser. The HD58X and HD660S now have a dip there, I assume because of this.

I remember the old days where there were 3 'camps' all only liking one headphone and hating the others. K701, DT880 and HD650.
There really were (and still are despite the brighter tuning over the years people that do not like the HD650.
 

ZolaIII

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#90
I found my perfect match (for now) two years ago in a portable easy to drive earbuds they aren't best sounding one's I ever heard nor owned, obviously have inherit design flows (no sub bass & bass roll of under 50 Hz). I am talking about Creative Aurvana air. They have a great soundstage for what they are, solid bass, great mids and not bad highs. They have a very good thimber and cimbals overly and a bit bright but never fatiguing nor dose highs go all that much up. When you see their measurements initial impression is that it's something you would immediately trow in a garbage but everything with them actually sounds pretty good. I like them so much because those are only ones that I can ware whole day, seven days a week, don't have communication problems while wearing them, they are ultra light and absolutely don't fall out. Those also really don't need EQ. I can even eat waring those. I don't like in ear (chanel) ones they irritate me (yet I have full shoe's box of those [including MEE M6 Pro, T2, couple of Sony one's including HF755 & cetera and cetera]), need duble or triple silicone tips for perfect seal, memory foam ones do help with seal and comfort but for me ruin the lower bass & of course thay fail out from time to time. There are great over ear headphones (Pioneer Monitor 10 II being the best one's I ever owned) but genuinely not quite good when it comes to confort nor for prolonged use especially on hot summer days nor all that much suitable to carry around. I do prefer semi open or open back ones so far did stick to dynamic driver's, do intend to aquire one or two of planar one's. But the saga continues & the quest for finding even better one's (actually have a quite long wish list), I don't buy anything that's rather pricy (I do buy some that where expensive when I catch them with heavy discounted price). Probably will direct my future efforts to dynamic and planar driver combo ones when some really interesting emerges.
My 5¢ on this topic.
 
D

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#91
What beyerdynamic headphones would you guys consider as the most flat, most neutral, more of a reference, more comparable to an HD650?? I like the brand, the design philosophy, the german precision, cable mods and reparability of Beyerdynamics, but apparently all their models really pierce your ears on the treeble. Seem more focused on analytical monitoring than pleasure listening, no? Except in one model that is the other way around and "over-bassed". Thanks.
 

solderdude

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#92
The treble peaks can be fixed but yes... most 'higher end' Beyers have the treble.

DT880 and DT1990 with A pads (which turns the DT1990 into an DT1880 essentially) are the most neutral ones but with (fixable) mt. Beyer.
The DT250 and DT150 with DT100 pads don't have a mount beyer, nor does the T51P and COP.
 

Tup3x

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#94
HD650 vs HD660S


As can be seen the HD660S has about 3dB less 'clarity' in the 2-5kHz area.
Sibilance is in the 6kHz area.
I guess the main culprit is that dip around 4,5 kHz. Makes it feel like something suddenly disappears or should I say less connected/smooth. There's, what, around 5 dB difference? Volume matching at that point would make kicks and stuff like that hit way too hard. Since each headphone is unique the difference could be few dB larger (or smaller).
 

Tup3x

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#96
I have the V-Jays as well and the KSC35 and the KSC75 which are very similar to the Portapro.
I prefer the KSC35 the most and transplanted the silicone earclips of the KSC7X on the KSC35.
The KSC7X as well as the current KSC75 aren't as 'good' as the older ones for some reason.
Koss claims they did not change anything but it looks like they did.

I don't find the HD650 forward but there are those that do, especially the HD600 is found to be too 'hot' in the 3kHz range.
This was the most heard 'complaint' by Sennheiser. The HD58X and HD660S now have a dip there, I assume because of this.

I remember the old days where there were 3 'camps' all only liking one headphone and hating the others. K701, DT880 and HD650.
There really were (and still are despite the brighter tuning over the years people that do not like the HD650.
:cool: I guess the name now makes sense, eh? Seems to be very well matching drivers.
IMG_20200208_144642.jpg


But if I compare these to my HD 650.... I though I put my HD 6XXs on when I first time tried these. They're really close. The "HD 580" has maybe a tad less warmth in bass but extension still seems very similar. Maybe a bit tighter bass too but the differences are really small. So small that it all could be placebo...

EDIT:
There are definitely differences. HD 600 seems a tad more detailed. Drums and kicks have a bit more impact. Darn, I guess I actually like these more. xD
 
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#97
ATH-MSR7 with solderdude filter
 
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#99
D

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I got my HD6XX 4 days ago, and I am blown away. I do not have experience with good headphones, this is a beginner impressions. This thing sounds like super detailed, stable, balanced. I would love a tiny bit of sub bass that is lacking, to say something bad about them, and then, when using decent 1411kbs files, you can hear all the errors in the records. Sometimes I hear errors, I download those albums again, sometimes in 24/96 quality; the errors are still there, it's errors on the production/recording, no file error, no headphones errors. Great detail, but then again, maybe not hearing that, just hear plain music like with an ipod, you don't spend your attention in that. With this headphones, seems to me that, you are always more analytically listening, not that the headphones are like that, but that used to lower detail speakers/earphones, you are not used to enjoying music that way. ANYWAYS, love them. Payed 170€ shipped to EU, no custom fees. Connected directly to Khadas tone board, no amp yet, volume is loud enough, roughly, but enough. Amazed that this quality of sound can be achieved for that money. I earlier bought a sennheiser hd25 for 125€ and returned them, great sound, great bass response, but less detail, less comfortable, more flat sounding. With the HD 6XX I can have them for hours, you don't get tired of them easily.
 
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