Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 Review (Speaker)

[tw 2022]

When will we see the review of the updated version 12.2?

most likely when Amir or Erin get sent a copy

 

[Karl-Heinz Fink]

most likely when Amir or Erin get sent a copy

It will not be made by me - that's for sure.

ATB KH

 

[Karl-Heinz Fink]

thanks so much for posting , interesting thoughts ... i'm not so sure " the traditional budget market is dead", though.... if someone makes a sub $500 pair of books that looks mediocre but sounds like they may cost $1500 ( for instance ascend sierra lx) , sign me and a bunch of others up for that treat....atb ....

I can only talk about it based on companies telling me they don't sell those cheaper speakers. I see that Q-Acoustics introduced a range above the 3000 series that should have been updated a long time ago. On the other hand, the new voicing of Q-Acoustic 5000 is so different; who knows how a new 3000 series would sound?

Typical budget speakers like TANNOY (Mercury) MISSION or Mordaunt-Short I don't see on the market, Wharfedale does not renew the Diamond 12 - what else company could be a candidate?

 

[tw 2022]

I can only talk about it based on companies telling me they don't sell those cheaper speakers. I see that Q-Acoustics introduced a range above the 3000 series that should have been updated a long time ago. On the other hand, the new voicing of Q-Acoustic 5000 is so different; who knows how a new 3000 series would sound?

Typical budget speakers like TANNOY (Mercury) MISSION or Mordaunt-Short I don't see on the market, Wharfedale does not renew the Diamond 12 - what else company could be a candidate?

good points .... elac , kef, and several American internet based companies (like emotiva , ascend, philharmonic audio) seem to be the best contributors... i'm not kidding here, you could change the market ,, great measuring speakers with decent drivers and low end black vinyl wrap could be *huge* in the market.. i'm sure this isn't in your market plans right now , but Ascend is using klippel based designs and are probably going to put out a lower cost model based on klippel at some point... Dennis Murphy at philharmonic sends all his models to be "klippel'd" as he continues to offer the best $ for $ value in the biz .. thanks for the response , just food for thought from an avid budget hobbyist.... ATB

 

[Thomas_A]

Having now owned these, for a few months, and able to experiment a lot with them, I have found........

While this EQ and the one Amir came up with on the first page of the thread, do create a slightly more neutral and a bit more forward sound, over time, going back and forth, I honestly "Somewhat" prefer that "As-is" sound without any eq added.

Not to say the EQ ruins the sound or anything, but going A/B between EQ to make them "Flat" and the built in dip, I somewhat prefer the dip overall.

I thought the "Dip" would be a flaw in a mostly great speaker, but over time, now find it a bit more listenable with the dip. Either way, the With and Without EQ, is still relatively minor, and may end up simply being "Personal preference", So I can see either way sounding good to some and not to others.

I did my DIY journey >20 years ago and found similar things although it is mostly the transition between 1-2 kHz and 3-4 kHz in stereo that is problematic. The stereo dip 1-2 kHz is audible and you get a ”ear-aching” transition from the dip to 3-4 kHz. It can be reduced somewhat by having more energy 1-2 kHz especially off-axis and a slight dip 2.5-4 kHz. It does not have to be much though, within +/- 1.5 dB or so.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I can only talk about it based on companies telling me they don't sell those cheaper speakers. I see that Q-Acoustics introduced a range above the 3000 series that should have been updated a long time ago. On the other hand, the new voicing of Q-Acoustic 5000 is so different; who knows how a new 3000 series would sound?

Typical budget speakers like TANNOY (Mercury) MISSION or Mordaunt-Short I don't see on the market, Wharfedale does not renew the Diamond 12 - what else company could be a candidate?

Thank you so much for coming here and sharing your knowledge.

I’m currently in the process of planning and buying a desktop system, though with speakers on stands at the sides of the desk.

I’m looking at the 12.1, but also the 12.2.

In the UK the price is £250 vs £300, and that’s not an issue for me.

What are the pros of buying the 12.2s instead of the 12.1s? Are there any cons? Are the 12.2s pretty much “exactly the same, but go lower”? Less distortion in lower frequencies?

For context, speaker distance/distance to listening position is 1.2m, the room is 5m x 3m, with the desk right down one end, on the centre of the wall, firing down the room, and I have a subwoofer. Listening levels will not be ear-bleeding.

Many thanks.

 

[Petevid]

I can only talk about it based on companies telling me they don't sell those cheaper speakers. I see that Q-Acoustics introduced a range above the 3000 series that should have been updated a long time ago. On the other hand, the new voicing of Q-Acoustic 5000 is so different; who knows how a new 3000 series would sound?

I have Q Acoustics 3010i and love them but what advances have there been since their launch in 2015 that might improve their design?

 

[Karl-Heinz Fink]

I have Q Acoustics 3010i and love them but what advances have there been since their launch in 2015 that might improve their design?

...there are some ideas. The woofer could get a better cone in a new shape for better roll-off. The design has always been more or less the same since 1010. Cabinet proportions are not ideal, and the port tube can be better placed and resonance improved (less output in the midband).
A simpler cabinet with more technical features in drivers and crossover could get you a better speaker for the money. Diamond 12.1 was already better, and I'm sure there is more to find.
Maybe one day, I'll find somebody to go this road with me.

 

[Karl-Heinz Fink]

Thank you so much for coming here and sharing your knowledge.

I’m currently in the process of planning and buying a desktop system, though with speakers on stands at the sides of the desk.

I’m looking at the 12.1, but also the 12.2.

In the UK the price is £250 vs £300, and that’s not an issue for me.

What are the pros of buying the 12.2s instead of the 12.1s? Are there any cons? Are the 12.2s pretty much “exactly the same, but go lower”? Less distortion in lower frequencies?

For context, speaker distance/distance to listening position is 1.2m, the room is 5m x 3m, with the desk right down one end, on the centre of the wall, firing down the room, and I have a subwoofer. Listening levels will not be ear-bleeding.

Many thanks.

I think the best one is 12.1. ..

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I think the best one is 12.1. ..

A thousand thanks, that’s all I need to know.

Best wishes. And if you’re ever in Yorkshire, we often keep a bottle or three of Warsteiner in the fridge.

 

[Petevid]

...there are some ideas. The woofer could get a better cone in a new shape for better roll-off. The design has always been more or less the same since 1010. Cabinet proportions are not ideal, and the port tube can be better placed and resonance improved (less output in the midband).
A simpler cabinet with more technical features in drivers and crossover could get you a better speaker for the money. Diamond 12.1 was already better, and I'm sure there is more to find.
Maybe one day, I'll find somebody to go this road with me.

Thanks Karl, really interesting. Hope you actually make it down that road. These Wiim, Fosi and SMSL amps could do with a new partner!

 

[Karl-Heinz Fink]

Thanks Karl, really interesting. Hope you actually make it down that road. These Wiim, Fosi and SMSL amps could do with a new partner!

I offered to do one for Eversolo (the distributor here in Germany is around the corner), but they don't want a speaker. All those new companies are good at designing products closely around the evaluation board of the chip manufacturer (and that's OK and makes sense), but developing a marketing strategy is something else.

 

[tw 2022]

I offered to do one for Eversolo (the distributor here in Germany is around the corner), but they don't want a speaker. All those new companies are good at designing products closely around the evaluation board of the chip manufacturer (and that's OK and makes sense), but developing a marketing strategy is something else.

that's a shame... we need more not less good speaker options at reasonable prices.. even at the expense of top end options... thanks again for your responses here , it's nice to exchange messages with the guy that did the work... color me a new fan...

 

[tw 2022]

A thousand thanks, that’s all I need to know.

and straight from the source himself.... it doesn't get any better...

 

[DSJR]

Hi,


what you noticed is what we do during the development. We listen to the speakers with all sorts of music and tune them so that the maximum number of tracks sounds good (to us). Believe me, it's very easy to make a speaker flat, but they would sound harsh and forward in most cases. We can discuss if that's good or bad, but as long as the music is recorded the way it is, I'll voice speakers the way I do.

Indeed, I only did one Wharfedale range and two Castle models for IAG. The contract ended at the end of last year, so no more models from us.

In a way, it's a pity, as I like doing budget speakers. But there is no brand around, who is interested - obviously, the traditional budget market is dead.

ATB KH

Hope you're still around to read this request - It looks as if you have a new smaller Epos out or appearing soon? Any details please, perhaps in a new thread? I'm still to hear the ES14N but my dealer pal has them and I should be visiting end of march with luck.

 

[DSJR]

Purely a subjective vibe and nowt to do with KHF or Wharfedale, but an eternity ago now, KEF made some dirt cheap speakers (Coda 7, 8 and 9, the latter a floorstander). The seriously cheap cabinet apparently aided the midrange output rather than hindered it (according the the table-top KEF book) and they sounded way better than the cheap parts would suggest. the floorstanding Coda 9 was similar with a bit more lower bass, the mids clear and highs sweet with a 'friendly' sound whatever that means (I said it was subjective), but the Coda 8 with larger box and bass-mid driver, simply sounded a bit too full of itself in upper bass and lower midrange.

It does seem that in a given design brief, there's maybe one model that simply 'does it' straight off and the others may not quite have that 'magic' despite best intentions, at least initially.

 

[Chaconne]

Regarding the market demand for budget speakers: Do you want a some Diamond 12.1s? Too bad. They seem to be sold out everywhere, including the Wharfedale website. Nothing used showing up on HiFiShark, either, the last time I checked. Pretty strong vote of confidence for the esteemed Mr. Fink!

 

[Laserjock]

Regarding the market demand for budget speakers: Do you want a some Diamond 12.1s? Too bad. They seem to be sold out everywhere, including the Wharfedale website. Nothing used showing up on HiFiShark, either, the last time I checked. Pretty strong vote of confidence for the esteemed Mr. Fink!

Check www.musicdirect.com for new, open box and B stock of the series as well as other Wharfedale and Revel brand.

I won a pair of 12.1s and purchased Revel M16 from them with great customer service

 

[TheBatsEar]

Regarding the market demand for budget speakers: Do you want a some Diamond 12.1s? Too bad. They seem to be sold out everywhere, including the Wharfedale website. Nothing used showing up on HiFiShark, either, the last time I checked. Pretty strong vote of confidence for the esteemed Mr. Fink!

I think it depends on where you are. In Europe they are easily available. I'm stalking a returned pair on Ebay for 180€ right now.

 

[thewas]

I'm stalking a returned pair on Ebay for 180€ right now.

Last weekend you could get a new pair for 175€ at Hidden Audio, I got one out of curiosity.