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Speaker upgrade or should i keep my wharefedale speakers?

Mike_Trueman

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I have now Wharfedale 2-way 5" bookshelfspeakers Diamonds 12.1 (See signature for my specs).
Which of these 3 bookshelf speaker would be a good upgrade?

Fyne Audio F301i - 500€ - 2-way 6" - D 10.7” x W 7.5"
Ruark Sabre-R Bookshelf - 800€ - 2-way 6" - D 8,5" x W 6,9"
Totem LOON Monitor - 1600€ - 2-way 5,75" - D 8,4" x W 6"
Dynaudio Evoke 10 - 1500 - 2-way 5,5"

Speaker cabinet can be max 10,7" because of the depth of my desktop setup. The speaker cabinet is now 6" of the wall on acoustic pucks.
They do not need to go low because i have the crossover set to 80hz on the amp to the subwoofer.

The LX has nice reviews and is a good option but it is to expensive to import.
Ascend Acoustics SIERRA-LX PAIR - 1550 Dollar - 2-way 6" - D 10.5" x W 7.5"

Also the 5 year old Dynaudio Evoke 10 speakers are some nice small speakers.
 
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Had the question been: I have a pair of Fyne Audio F301i do you think I should exchange them for a pair of Diamonds 12.1? Then my answer would have been: Yes.

That based on measurements. For the Fyne Audio F301i, it doesn't look so good:
420FY301fig3.jpg


Clearly better with Diamonds 12.1:


Regarding Ruark Saber-R Bookshelf and Totem LOON Monitor I don't know anything about them. Maybe others can help you with that?

But okay, if I take the Ascend Sierra-1 V2, it's a "better" speaker than Diamonds 12.1. Then seen from the criteria of a good FR, that is. Then there is the question of whether they differ much in dispersion? I haven't checked that. It is also a matter of taste what kind of dispersion pattern you like.:)
Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 V2 Speaker Anechoic CEA2034 Speaker Review.jpg

What do you feel you are missing with your Diamonds 12.1? What kind of improvement are you looking for?

Edit:
Ascend Sierra-1 V2 have 81 db sensitivity. You have a 100 watt amp. For every 3 dB, double amp power. It may seem a little bit to little that I sometimes power up my 90 dB speakers with a 30 watt receiver, but let's say they were at 81 dB sensitivity. For every 3 dB a doubling, which would then give 240 watts equivalent speaker sensitivity-number amp watt ratio. :oops:
 
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Hi,
Can you talk a little about your system, your room and how you like to listen - how far from the speakers do you sit, how loud? That helps.

Unfortunately, I don't know two of your options: have you seen measurements for them? That's quite a lot of money to spend without good information.

I have the Fyne F301s - I like them but would not recommend them - bought before I found ASR. I certainly wouldn't replace Wharfdale 12.1s with them.
 
Had the question been: I have a pair of Fyne Audio F301i do you think I should exchange them for a pair of Diamonds 12.1? Then my answer would have been: Yes.

That based on measurements. For the Fyne Audio F301i, it doesn't look so good:
View attachment 414107


Clearly better with Diamonds 12.1:


Regarding Ruark Saber-R Bookshelf and Totem LOON Monitor I don't know anything about them. Maybe others can help you with that?

But okay, if I take the Ascend Sierra-1 V2, it's a "better" speaker than Diamonds 12.1. Then seen from the criteria of a good FR, that is. Then there is the question of whether they differ much in dispersion? I haven't checked that. It is also a matter of taste what kind of dispersion pattern you like.:)
View attachment 414110

What do you feel you are missing with your Diamonds 12.1? What kind of improvement are you looking for?

Edit:
Ascend Sierra-1 V2 have 81 db sensitivity. You have a 100 watt amp. For every 3 dB, double amp power. It may seem a little bit to little that I sometimes power up my 90 dB speakers with a 30 watt receiver, but let's say they were at 81 dB sensitivity. For every 3 dB a doubling, which would then give 240 watts equivalent speaker sensitivity-number amp watt ratio. :oops:
Hi,
Can you talk a little about your system, your room and how you like to listen - how far from the speakers do you sit, how loud? That helps.

Unfortunately, I don't know two of your options: have you seen measurements for them? That's quite a lot of money to spend without good information.

I have the Fyne F301s - I like them but would not recommend them - bought before I found ASR. I certainly wouldn't replace Wharfdale 12.1s with them.
Thanks for the feedback, i will delete the Fyne Audio from my list then. :)
Maybe i need to wait untill some reviews for the Ruark Saber-R Bookshelf speakers because i like them most.

Also you ask my about how i listen to music, here is a short video of the setup playing.

 
The latent audiophool remaining in me would suggest that you haven't heard the Wharfedales properly yet, let alone spending vastly more on a questionable 'upgrade' ;)

Can you move the tower down on the floor near the sub perhaps and space the Wharfedales apart a little more? I appreciate that coax drivers may be better heard off axis a little, but a little toe-in might be beneficial once you've got the speakers just a little more apart. What you have there is little more than 'wide mono' I'd suggest and I do know what I'm talking about, as my old second rig in the 'office space' has some Diamond 7.2SEs set up exactly the same, with next to no stereo soundfield at all!

If you really want a change, would any of the latest KEFs be of interest?
 
The latent audiophool remaining in me would suggest that you haven't heard the Wharfedales properly yet, let alone spending vastly more on a questionable 'upgrade' ;)

Can you move the tower down on the floor near the sub perhaps and space the Wharfedales apart a little more? I appreciate that coax drivers may be better heard off axis a little, but a little toe-in might be beneficial once you've got the speakers just a little more apart. What you have there is little more than 'wide mono' I'd suggest and I do know what I'm talking about, as my old second rig in the 'office space' has some Diamond 7.2SEs set up exactly the same, with next to no stereo soundfield at all!

If you really want a change, would any of the latest KEFs be of interest?
Yeah i looked at the KEF's also but the LS50 meta seems to big. (11,9 x 7,9 x 11,0 in.)
I see they are much curved in the front now. So they take much less space on the desk?

1734261624754.png
 
Before you buy anythng, put the computer a bit further away from your ears, for less noise. Second. raise the speakers a bit. As they are now the design axis (usualy at tweeter height) is probably below ear height. Also, the close proximity to the desk will give them an unnatural bass boost. So first, measure the output with a Umik-1 and REW. This will help you improve the integration with the subwoofer, and suggest filters for the combined low frequency response. Upload those filters into the free Equalizer Apo (plus Peace interface) software that you can install on the PC. In addition, Amir's test of the 12.1 will have a suggestion for one or more filters to improve the response of the 12.1 itself, irrespective of the room effects.
 
I'd agree with earlier posts: before you change any equipment try to optimise your setup first. That listening position is challenging.

See if you can get the bigger items off your desk, raise your speakers or angle them up and separate the speakers more (ideally an equilateral triangle between speakers and you - not critical but see how close you can get).

Then: what's missing, what sort of improvement would you like? Those questions lead you to an understanding that you want different dispersion characteristics, or lower distortion at volume (unlikely at nearfield) or more bass etc

Set a good baseline, change from there.
Actually, you might find that your Wharfdales are pretty good.
 
Before you buy anythng, put the computer a bit further away from your ears, for less noise. Second. raise the speakers a bit. As they are now the design axis (usualy at tweeter height) is probably below ear height. Also, the close proximity to the desk will give them an unnatural bass boost. So first, measure the output with a Umik-1 and REW. This will help you improve the integration with the subwoofer, and suggest filters for the combined low frequency response. Upload those filters into the free Equalizer Apo (plus Peace interface) software that you can install on the PC. In addition, Amir's test of the 12.1 will have a suggestion for one or more filters to improve the response of the 12.1 itself, irrespective of the room effects.
My tweeters are at ear height and are standing on isolation pucks. The PC is dead silent with my custom fan curve also i do not want it to place under de desk.
My amplifier has Dirac Live with bass control and a Calibration microphone included.
  • Corrects full frequency range (20Hz-20kHz) response
  • Improves impulse response (timing)
  • Editable target curve and multiple playback modes with graphical guidance
I'd agree with earlier posts: before you change any equipment try to optimise your setup first. That listening position is challenging.

See if you can get the bigger items off your desk, raise your speakers or angle them up and separate the speakers more (ideally an equilateral triangle between speakers and you - not critical but see how close you can get).

Then: what's missing, what sort of improvement would you like? Those questions lead you to an understanding that you want different dispersion characteristics, or lower distortion at volume (unlikely at nearfield) or more bass etc

Set a good baseline, change from there.
Actually, you might find that your Wharfdales are pretty good.
Yeah the Wharefdales are good speakers and will keep them even if i buy new speakers.
 
While you consider options, here's a left field one: retire your V3 amps (my assumption that you have these based on your video) and try a pair of Genelec 8030c. I think they'd be good.
 
Genelec 8030c mount on the wall and get that tower out of they way not because of noise but reflections
This to get the tweeters at ear level and as wide-set as poss. There are several other brands of studio monitors that would work well in this space also. Focal Alpha, Kali, Dynaudio all well regarded. The CPU set where your filing cab is, the files left to where the dog toys are & the sub on either side that works best for your chair.
Best of Luck
 
This to get the tweeters at ear level and as wide-set as poss. There are several other brands of studio monitors that would work well in this space also. Focal Alpha, Kali, Dynaudio all well regarded. The CPU set where your filing cab is, the files left to where the dog toys are & the sub on either side that works best for your chair.
Best of Luck
Wow that Dynaudio Focus 10 active speaker even got Dirac and a subwoofer output, it also is a streamer. (Roon, Airplay2, Chromecast, Tidal Connect, Spotify Connect, Qplay, UPnP) The price is 5000€.

I wonder if it is has the same tweeter and woofer as the Evoke 10 passive speaker for 1500€.
 
Wow that Dynaudio Focus 10 active speaker even got Dirac and a subwoofer output, it also is a streamer. (Roon, Airplay2, Chromecast, Tidal Connect, Spotify Connect, Qplay, UPnP) The price is 5000€.

I wonder if it is has the same tweeter and woofer as the Evoke 10 passive speaker for 1500€.
Was that a general observation about the price or is 5000€/$5000 something you can imagine spending on speakers? If you can do that, suggestions for other speakers will probably be given in that case.
 
Was that a general observation about the price or is 5000€/$5000 something you can imagine spending on speakers? If you can do that, suggestions for other speakers will probably be given in that case.
No this amount i am not going to spend for my desktop. I hope i can find something good between 800€ and 1500€ :)

But i think my amp is to weak to power those Evoke 10 speakers. Or am i wrong?
 
You don't need your Amp (the power amp stage) at all with the Dynaudios. They are 'active' speakers: built in amplification so you only need the preamp-out from your NAD. The key part is that the built in amplification is properly tailored to the individual drivers although there is more to it than that.

Same with the Genelecs that have been recommended (there are alternatives too). It's an option that is well worth looking at, especially with your nearfield setup. Actually, it's always an option to consider and worth reading up on.
 
But i think my amp is to weak to power those Evoke 10 speakers. Or am i wrong?
In general, the level of amp power depends partly on the sensitivity of the speakers and how you listen to music. That is, the volume, the SPL level and how dynamic the music is. Have you measured with a db meter? If so, what dB are you at?

In addition, it also depends on the opposite, or if you turn it around.If you already have a beefy amp with a lot of power, the kind of speakers you have. The speakers power handling, what level of compression they can handle. What the speakers are capable of playing at a high level/volume/SPL without sounding bad, that is, distorting.
 
You don't need your Amp (the power amp stage) at all with the Dynaudios. They are 'active' speakers: built in amplification so you only need the preamp-out from your NAD. The key part is that the built in amplification is properly tailored to the individual drivers although there is more to it than that.

Same with the Genelecs that have been recommended (there are alternatives too). It's an option that is well worth looking at, especially with your nearfield setup. Actually, it's always an option to consider and worth reading up on.
I said Evoke 10 speakers :)
 
In general, the level of amp power depends partly on the sensitivity of the speakers and how you listen to music. That is, the volume, the SPL level and how dynamic the music is. Have you measured with a db meter? If so, what dB are you at?

In addition, it also depends on the opposite, if you already have a beefy amp with a lot of power, the kind of speakers you have. The speakers power handling, what level of compression they can handle. What the speakers are capable of playing at a high level, volume, SPL without sounding bad, that is, distorting.
This i got from there website.

Sensitivity (dB @ 2.83V/1m) 84
IEC Power Handling (W) 160
Rated Impedance (Ohm) 6
Lower Cutoff (Hz @ +/- 3 dB) 47
Upper Cutoff (kHz @ +/- 3 dB) 23
 
Thanks for the feedback, i will delete the Fyne Audio from my list then. :)
Maybe i need to wait untill some reviews for the Ruark Saber-R Bookshelf speakers because i like them most.

Also you ask my about how i listen to music, here is a short video of the setup playing.

I'd stick to nearfield monitors in a setup like this, because they are designed to used in nearfield applications such as a desk setup.
 
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