Wanted - AVR Recomendations

[Timbo2]

I actually struggled which forum to put this. The analog portion is important to me as the digital part, but this site makes a distinction between the two! ;-)

I have a really tiny listening room and only run a 5.1 setup with small speakers and a single subwoofer. I'm currently using an Onkyo TX-SR508 and I'm relatively happy, but have the following issues:

1. The HDMI switching occassionally likes to flake out - known issue - cheap capacitors. Sigh...
2. Noise - noticeable hiss on many of the procesing modes
3. Onkyo may claim 80WPC RMS 8 ohms FTC - but they must get this result the same way GM gets its EPA mileage ratings. Even in my tiny room it's underpowered - especially on 5.1 material.

But, honestly, it was good value for money and does 90% of what I need it to do. If the HDMI switch wasn't flaking out I'd probably keep using it.

So I'd like to replace it with something that doesn't cost a fortune, has more power and quieter processing. No need to pay for an Atmos license or anything fancy. I need something with a good implimentation of HDMI - CEC preferably with some granular choices around its implimentation.

My research lead me to believe that NAD might fit bill, but the amount of firmware revisions on some of their recievers quickly turned me off.

The HDMI-CEC seems to be the issue. The volume manufacturers usually get it better, but the processing and amplifier sections are much less robust. OTH, the low volume manufacturers get the good hardware and topology, but don't have the resources on the software side.

My other problem with the volume manufacturers is that they have WiFi, Bluetooth, Pandora, Sirius, et al. All features I don't want, but that for competitive reasons they need. And the price for these features comes at the expense of higher quality basic features.

So, does anyone have any recommendations? Thanks!

 

[amirm]

The HDMI-CEC seems to be the issue.

The general talk about HDMI-CEC is that it only works reliably within the same brand of source/AVR. Mixing brands is asking for trouble.

THis is another part of HDMI spect that is poorly tested/thought out.

 

[Stump909]

Of all the big names, only Denon and Marantz offer Audyessy XT/XT32 room correction. To get anything better you'd have to make the jump to an Anthem unit with ARC, or a NAD/Emotiva with Dirac Live.

 

[Timbo2]

Of all the big names, only Denon and Marantz offer Audyessy XT/XT32 room correction. To get anything better you'd have to make the jump to an Anthem unit with ARC, or a NAD/Emotiva with Dirac Live.

That's where I'm leaning - Denon / Marantz. I still can't quite make out the brand differentiation there. Denon seems to want to take the basic black box approach with slightly more techy features and Marantz wants to look like McIntosh for the everyman. OTH, I've read that while the guts are about 95% the same it seems Marantz puts the 5% difference into a better analog portion.

NAD's latest seemed perfect, but its overkill for what I need and both the number of firmware revisions and the horrible process for doing the updates really turned me off.

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

In my Mch prepro days - an Integra 80.2 - I never had a problem with HDMI connected to an Oppo player, cable box or Sony TV. Computer hookup to a Win PC was a different matter, with frequent handshake issues due to Windows audio and the graphics driver not being fully integrated. There was a proper turn on sequence that worked, if only I could remember what that proper sequence was each time it happened. But, fiddling restored everything. Eventually, I got a Gefen HDMI Detective+ and had no problems thereafter. No sure if they have a version for 4K via HDMI though.

I currently go straight to a DAC for Mch audio and to a 2k TV for video via HDMI through the Gefen all using JRiver software on my WinPC as my "prepro". So, no HDMI problems at all.

On AVRs, NAD might be a good choice. I might also look at Anthem and Arcam. EQ capability is an important consideration. NAD and Arcam use Dirac EQ. Anthem uses ARC. But, all those seem good choices. I am not impressed by proprietary EQ tools by Onkyo, Pioneer, Sony or Yamaha. Not sure about current versions of Audyssey EQ in Denon and Marantz. That may have improved it over what it once was. But, NAD, Anthem and Arcam also do not appear to do the excessive AVR feature bloat so prevalent in the Japanese brands.

 

[Timbo2]

Eventually, I got a Gefen HDMI Detective+ and had no problems thereafter. No sure if they have a version for 4K via HDMI though.
... But, NAD, Anthem and Arcam also do not appear to do the excessive AVR feature bloat so prevalent in the Japanese brands.

Funny enough I have the same Gefen device! I ran an ATI video card for years with no issues. I switched to Intel integrated graphics and had a world of pain with my HTPC. The Gefen solved that. Good news is I only run 1080p. Obviously anything I buy now will be 4K of course.

I can't stand the AVR feature bloat on most of the Japanese brands. Everything is made to a price point and those features come at the expense of better basic quality.

 

[DonH56]

What is the budget?

A good recent used mid- to top-line model can probably be had fairly inexpensively.

Marketing drives feature bloat, and customers expect a bunch of features they may or may not use in the feature, so I doubt that problem is going away.

 

[Stump909]

What is the budget?

A good recent used mid- to top-line model can probably be had fairly inexpensively.

That or refurb from Accesories4Less. The problem with going to far back is the feature loss within the HDMI spec.

 

[Timbo2]

What is the budget?

I'm hoping to keep it under $1,000. Around $500-$700 would be be the sweet spot.

I'm not faulting manufacturers for giving most consumers what they want. I recognize I'm in the minority here. Must be the reason I drive a Jeep with a manual transmission...

 

[Blumlein 88]

DO NOT GET DENON!!!!

The performance is okay, but somewhere along the way their user interfaces became a nightmare. They used to be a goto recommendation. As someone said internally Marantz is much the same, but a better choice for the UI.

Also since your needs are not great for latest features I would say get a used one. Not hard to find good used powerful AVR's for a fraction of original cost. Marantz, Onkyo, Yamaha and maybe some others.

I think CEC is something you have trouble making work unless all your gear is from the same company as someone has already posted above.

Also getting good digital and analog performance is a crap shoot. And there no site like this one nor publications like Stereophile that test all aspects of AVRs. I've run across some that have specs that must be someone's dream as they bore no relation to the actual gear. One Denon analog input had 52 db of SNR. Some fellow actually was crazy enough to figure out why and tell you how to mod it. The components were fine and after mods it had an SNR of 100 db. Sorry life is too short to fix AVR circuitry to me.

 

[Stump909]

DO NOT GET DENON!!!!

The performance is okay, but somewhere along the way their user interfaces became a nightmare.

How recently are you talking? I think they changed them last year. Wirecutter also runs some technical measurements, not the full spectrum, but far better than what "audiophile" publications have been including recently.

 

[Timbo2]

DO NOT GET DENON!!!!

The performance is okay, but somewhere along the way their user interfaces became a nightmare. They used to be a goto recommendation. As someone said internally Marantz is much the same, but a better choice for the UI.

That would be me!

Yes, used or re-certified may be the way to go. When did Denon turn into a disaster? That may let me know what time periods to look for.

 

[Blumlein 88]

That would be me!

Yes, used or re-certified may be the way to go. When did Denon turn into a disaster? That may let me know what time periods to look for.

I'm not sure. My experience with a handful of units is any of them produced in China. So that is a few years ago. The Japanese produced ones seem fine. I think we are talking 2009 or 2010.

Maybe some aren't this way, maybe it has gotten better as I obviously haven't used them all. However 4 of them I've had hands on or friends have had from then and later are just bad on the UI. In each case, though the unit works fine, everyone finally just said "enough" and threw it out for another brand.

I hate that HK has abandoned this field for the most part. Their gear seemed to perform well and be sensibly made most of the time.

 

[Sal1950]

I'm in the process of upgrading a Marantz AV7701 for a 7703 pre-pro. Mint condition with all accessories, will take $450 plus actual shipping costs. Just add a amp of choice and your all set.
http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?SubCatId=0&ProductId=AV7701

 

[jhaider]

DO NOT GET DENON!!!!

The performance is okay, but somewhere along the way their user interfaces became a nightmare. They used to be a goto recommendation. As someone said internally Marantz is much the same, but a better choice for the UI.

Are you sure? I haven't used a Denon for two or three generations, but the only UI difference at the time was color scheme. Menus and even fonts were the same.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I'm in the process of upgrading a Marantz AV7701 for a 7703 pre-pro. Mint condition with all accessories, will take $450 plus actual shipping costs. Just add a amp of choice and your all set.
http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?SubCatId=0&ProductId=AV7701

@Sal1950 check your conversations.

 

[Timbo2]

I'm in the process of upgrading a Marantz AV7701 for a 7703 pre-pro. Mint condition with all accessories, will take $450 plus actual shipping costs. Just add a amp of choice and your all set.
http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?SubCatId=0&ProductId=AV7701

Thanks Sal! Probably overkill for my application. But that is a really fair price.

Let me investigate amps.

 

[FrantzM]

@Sal1950 check your conversations.

you beat me!! I am next in line just in case ...

 

[Sal1950]

Let me investigate amps.

OK, let me know one way or the other soon as you can. I offered to you first, now I have two others interested.
Guess I shouldv'e asked for more money. LOL

 

[Timbo2]

OK, let me know one way or the other soon as you can. I offered to you first, now I have two others interested.
Guess I shouldv'e asked for more money. LOL

Sal, you are an honorable man! It really is overkill for my application. So I’ll pass and let the next guy grab it. You are right, that’s a nice price.

Thanks, Tim