Topping Pre90 Review (preamplifier)

[PaulD]

Quick question do Pre amps change the tone of the sound ?

No, preamps do not change the sound, or they should not. They only make it louder, provide input switching, and some do have tone controls. The Pre90 does not change the sound at all, except to make it louder - it is completely transparent.

i did read that the Denafrips Hestia can give the sound a more " warmer sound" is this even possible? i though it was the DAC's Doing ?

DACs do not change the sound either! Or again, they should not. People report all sort of silliness from sighted and uncontrolled listening tests. I no longer read any sighted listening tests, I do believe properly conducted measurements. I have witnessed people "hearing" a sound change because the colour on the front panel LED was changed from blue to red. I also have no idea what "warmer" means in terms of sound, I only see that on my air conditioning control, the units here are degrees celsius.

 

[ohnonate]

Great feedback Paul. Thanks for clarifying.
There is a lot if junk out there of disinformation.
I had a good laugh when you said

" I have witnessed people "hearing" a sound change because the colour on the front panel LED was changed from blue to red "

thats a classic

 

[Dgob]

Just a quick word on the Topping Pre90 and on my gratitude to Amir and the ASR forums. Time and circumstance have led to my having to "downgrade" my system from the space-demanding, very expensive vinyl-based system that I have established over a few decades.

So I set off looking for "budget" bookshelf speakers that might allow for audiophile quality sound. It was in researching these options that I came across Amir's review of the KRK Rokit monitors. Given that I was leaning toward getting the acclaimed B&W 607 S2 speakers, his review of these and contrasting review of the Rokit 5 G4's led me to get the latter. And I was impressed with these monitors, that were "budget" in price only!

This increased my faith and led me to join some of the ASR forums: where more help was offered kindly. That and Amir's review led to my buying a Topping E30 DAC, which I used with my "budget" Marantz CD63 KI Signature. Again, the E30 was "budget" in name only and I was further impressed. However, I needed a way to manage volume when using the E30, apart from getting up to adjust the volume on the Rokit 5's.

More advice from members of the ASR forums (particularly 617) and I decided to get the Topping Pre90 preamp, which brings me back on topic. This arrived 3 days ago and has been up and running for 2 full days. Well, Wow!!! This has made a CD convert of me and elevated this apparently "budget" system to a level that exceeds my earlier and massively more expensive system - including the Marantz CD7 digital front-end.

I am now hearing more detail than I have ever achieved before. One case in point is my listening to the CD of Taj Mahal's 'Sooo Good 'n Blues' album. On the final track - 'Teacup's Jazzy Blues Tune' - Taj's whistling and the backing vocals of the Pointer Sisters and the various bells and cymbals that they use are brought into complete detail with the staging also offering a phenomenal realism. Then, the conclusion of this track has Taj Mahal complete with the words "out of sight!". On my earlier systems, this is preceded by a couple of sounds that I had assumed were his double base being placed on the wooden floor. It now turns out that Taj in fact takes three steps further back on the stage before making his concluding (and very accurate) statement: "OUT OF SIGHT!"

So I am grateful to Amir and the contributors to these ASR fora. I have achieved more from less and realized that "budget" doesn't have to mean worse. This all begs the question: 'what value knowledge?'

Thanks again.

 

[Jinshan]

Welcome Aboard @Jinshan.

Thanks for making me feel at home!

 

[Peternz]

Do preamplifiers change/improve the sound? Well it depends. There is a great discussion of this here:

https://soundnews.net/accessories/topping-pre90-ext90-review-pre-amp-my-power-amp/

"The most important thing to know is that Pre90 will behave differently with different type of DACs. Some DACs have a lower voltage output and those will benefit the most out of Pre90, some DACs like Denafrips R2R DACs or Musician Pegasus, have a very high output impedance, past 1000 Ohms and those will also benefit tremendously from a dedicated preamp, since the power amp that follows will not struggle that much in raising the volume. Some DACs already have a decent output stage and a higher voltage output than usual and those units will benefit less from a dedicated preamp. From all the DACs I’ve tested of late, Gustard units like A22 and A18 DACs weren’t much better sounding with my preamp, because they already offered a stronger signal of 6 Volts via XLR. My Matrix Audio Element X isn’t going anywhere mostly because it can output up to 15V of pure analog gain via its XLR outputs, it has a true line-amplifier circuit inside and as you can guess, a DAC like that will benefit much less or not at all from a dedicated preamp.
An Audiobyte HydraVox DAC on the other hand, with its 3.8 Volts on its XLR output, will benefit greater from a preamp than a Gustard or a Matrix unit. Please take all this into consideration when shopping for a preamp, it’s incredibly important, as it really depends on what source you’re using with your power amplifier."

 

[AdamG]

Do preamplifiers change/improve the sound? Well it depends. There is a great discussion of this here:

https://soundnews.net/accessories/topping-pre90-ext90-review-pre-amp-my-power-amp/

"The most important thing to know is that Pre90 will behave differently with different type of DACs. Some DACs have a lower voltage output and those will benefit the most out of Pre90, some DACs like Denafrips R2R DACs or Musician Pegasus, have a very high output impedance, past 1000 Ohms and those will also benefit tremendously from a dedicated preamp, since the power amp that follows will not struggle that much in raising the volume. Some DACs already have a decent output stage and a higher voltage output than usual and those units will benefit less from a dedicated preamp. From all the DACs I’ve tested of late, Gustard units like A22 and A18 DACs weren’t much better sounding with my preamp, because they already offered a stronger signal of 6 Volts via XLR. My Matrix Audio Element X isn’t going anywhere mostly because it can output up to 15V of pure analog gain via its XLR outputs, it has a true line-amplifier circuit inside and as you can guess, a DAC like that will benefit much less or not at all from a dedicated preamp.
An Audiobyte HydraVox DAC on the other hand, with its 3.8 Volts on its XLR output, will benefit greater from a preamp than a Gustard or a Matrix unit. Please take all this into consideration when shopping for a preamp, it’s incredibly important, as it really depends on what source you’re using with your power amplifier."

Welcome Aboard @Peternz.

 

[Peternz]

I got my Pre90 yesterday. Very well packaged with all the accessories. Just make sure you have batteries for the remote which are not included. It is very well made and it looks nice. It is great to be able to adjust the display and have it turn off after 30 seconds if you want it to. The remote seems a bit slow and not always responsive. You have to point it at the Pre90 like you mean it.
The sound as far as I can tell is excellent, dare I say perfect for a pre amp. It does not call attention to itself in any way and I suspect it is at least as good as units costing many times the price.
I have been waiting for a preamp like this for years now and I am very pleased that Topping has produced it.
The good: Well made. Sounds great. The value for money is off the charts. It has an excellent volume control range and very high attenuation if that is what you need.
The bad: The remote could be more responsive.

How could Topping improve this product?
Higher quality RCA connectors would be welcome.
The remote control could work better.

How would I change it for my unique use case?
I would make it exclusively single ended with 2 RCA inputs and 3 RCA outputs. Yes, I would ditch the balanced, I don't need it and I don't want to pay for it.

How does it play with my Oppo UDP-205? Yes, I do believe setting my Oppo to max ouput (DAC mode if you like) and using the Pre90 to control the volume makes for a more dynamic and open sound than just plugging the Oppo straight into a power amp and using it's digital volume control.

 

[Rottmannash]

I don't need another preamp but I'm tempted to buy this one just because. Surely there's somewhere in my house I could put it....

 

[misterdog]

How would I change it for my unique use case?
I would make it exclusively single ended with 2 RCA inputs and 3 RCA outputs. Yes, I would ditch the balanced, I don't need it and I don't want to pay for it.

You could have the RCA's from mine.

If I can have another XLR in.

 

[Toliandar]

Loving those measurements.

Wish it had tone controls though, if it did I'd go and buy one and the extension box right now.

 

[misterdog]

Wish it had tone controls though,

What is it that you need to correct ?

 

[Toliandar]

Not necessarily about correction and about fun. Sometimes I'll be in the feeling for more bass.

 

[Peternz]

Loving those measurements.

Wish it had tone controls though, if it did I'd go and buy one and the extension box right now.

Watch those measurements that you love deteriorate if you add tone controls. Tone controls completely defeat the purpose of a preamp like this.

 

[maverik_77]

Can John or anyone else tell me if the remote issues i keep reading about, not working more than 6 to 8 feet. Is this on all the units or just a few ? Has this issue been resolved ?

Regarding the volume control, i know the unit makes a clicking sound when adjusting volume, due to the relays. But is that clicking sound audible through the speakers.

I have got the Pre90 as well as the D90. The Pre90 seem to pickup signal a bit better. When I look close, the sensor on Pre90 is around 10% covered on its left (right end of the display when we look). On the D90 around 20-25% of the sensor is covered. I believe they knew the problem in D90 and worked on it, but still not perfect. On a day and age where a FLIRC usb sensor can pick faintest of signals this looks like very poor implementation. Hope they get this figured out soon.

I have not moved Pre90 to my main system yet as I am doing checks at my desk. So cant provide direct comparison but the positioning of sensor and based on limited usage it seem to have improved.

Biggest issue for me is Topping using same remote code to cycle inputs. This works well if you have a sensor that can pick everything, which topping D9X series devices are not good at. On my D90 it is a nightmare when using through harmony and there are many times it gets stuck on wrong input/output where you have to intervene. Hope they release a new remote with individual buttons that use different codes for inputs/outputs, then provide firmware updates for us. I would be happy to pay for a new remote if they release separately. Minidsp SHD does that already (they even modified their SHD remotes mid product cycle to add more buttons too), so hope Topping can do if for their flagship devices.

 

[CristiK]

Hello everyone! Brought home yesterday the Pre90 to test; my stereo system chain looks like this Tidal/Win10 PC - Topping D70s mqa(set on DAC mode) - Topping Pre90 - Nuprime ST-10 power amp - Audiovector QR3 speakers. All cables are from Chord, except the one between the two Topping devices, which is a Topping 0,75m XLR Cable.

Beautiful analytic sound, great improvement, a lot more detail and bass. Almost like discovering new sounds on the same tracks

Except the remote issue(quite annoying, but nothing you cannot live with), I am running into the following:
when i adjust the volume on the Pre90, after -55db and up to Mute the volume is the same, very low, constant(what comes out from the D70s mqa?!). Trying to raise the volume, from -52db to -47db there is a sudden, audible drop of the volume, up to -46.5db where it raises out of the sudden and then it is crescendo from 0,5 to 0,5db. Haven't gone over -25db because of the thin walls and neighbours
Might this be a faulty unit? Please advise @JohnYang1997
Thank you.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Hello everyone! Brought home yesterday the Pre90 to test; my stereo system chain looks like this Tidal/Win10 PC - Topping D70s mqa(set on DAC mode) - Topping Pre90 - Nuprime ST-10 power amp - Audiovector QR3 speakers. All cables are from Chord, except the one between the two Topping devices, which is a Topping 0,75m XLR Cable.

Beautiful analytic sound, great improvement, a lot more detail and bass. Almost like discovering new sounds on the same tracks

Except the remote issue(quite annoying, but nothing you cannot live with), I am running into the following:
when i adjust the volume on the Pre90, after -55db and up to Mute the volume is the same, very low, constant(what comes out from the D70s mqa?!). Trying to raise the volume, from -52db to -47db there is a sudden, audible drom of the volume, up to -46.5db where it raises out of the sudden and then it is crescendo from 0,5 to 0,5db. Haven't gone over -25db because of the thin walls and neighbours
Might this be a faulty unit? Please advise @JohnYang1997
Thank you.

I think yes.

 

[mocenigo]

Hello everyone! Brought home yesterday the Pre90 to test; my stereo system chain looks like this Tidal/Win10 PC - Topping D70s mqa(set on DAC mode) - Topping Pre90 - Nuprime ST-10 power amp - Audiovector QR3 speakers. All cables are from Chord, except the one between the two Topping devices, which is a Topping 0,75m XLR Cable.

Beautiful analytic sound, great improvement, a lot more detail and bass. Almost like discovering new sounds on the same tracks

Does it replace a different preamp or did you drive the ST-10 directly from the D70 before?

 

[CristiK]

Does it replace a different preamp or did you drive the ST-10 directly from the D70 before?

It does not replace a different preamp; I was driving the ST-10 directly with the D70 set on PRE mode. Everything was working just fine.

 

[Harmonie]

It does not replace a different preamp; I was driving the ST-10 directly with the D70 set on PRE mode. Everything was working just fine.

Hi @CristiK and welcome here (soon you will get an official "Welcome aboard greeting")

What was the reason for the Pre90? To skip the digital volume?
So I guess that you are happier with the Pre90 in between?

 

[CristiK]

Hi @CristiK and welcome here (soon you will get an official "Welcome aboard greeting")

What was the reason for the Pre90? To skip the digital volume?
So I guess that you are happier with the Pre90 in between?

Thank you, @Harmonie !

To be honest, I wanted to see if a stand-alone preamp would bring (in practice) a sensible hearable difference to my setup. And it really does, except the things written above, the Pre90 I consider it to be a real gem in terms of audible difference. I have not tested any other preamp on this system before. I am running a 5.1.4 HT system, with the ST-10 power amp also driving the fron speakers and a separate stereo line connected to it. Next week I am upgrading the Audiovector QR3 fronts to QR5, and I think the difference will be more audible.