Topping PA7 Plus Amplifier Review

[beagleman]

Can't say the same. I've been tinkering with gear for 40 years. It happens, but as you say, not to xlr even under the most extreme situations. RCA's are varying sizes and robustness- especially on vintage gear. I've had cinching cables bend weak ones. Recent convert to xlr, but it's clearly a far superior connection. Good to see it on even inexpensive gear these days as a service to the unwashed masses you speak of that are unable to properly effectuate the rca format .

Cinching ends were never made to be used with RCA connectors. I agree RCA is not the best, but not based on using a non standard connector, that causes the issue itself.

 

[id.ray]

Am i the only one that really want to try this with the Topping LA90 Discrete bi-amped. Considering they are gain matched, i feel like this would be a fun experiment. have the LA90 drive the 2 UNI-Q's on the KEFS and have the PA7 drive the 8 Woofers.

 

[theREALdotnet]

Ambient temp usually plays a role. During summer times in California my room definitely gets hot, which besides this year is nearly 8 months. I may further say that I think the worst possible heat is when they are stacked, which was my original configuration.

We get pretty decent heat here too in Sydney, at least for half of the year. We usually turn on the aircon before it gets to 30ºC inside, though.

And yes, stacking heat-producing devices is probably the worst case, especially in tight quarters. Mine sit on a slab, with nothing above or around them.

Another thing I will add is I noticed that the units get even hotter when not being used or in idle, so leaving it on 24/7 is not an option for me. I've noticed this with a few pieces of equipment besides topping.

That’s interesting, I wonder whether that’s a microcontroller chasing its own tail trying to detect the active input, or something?

 

[jhaider]

It seems you missed what @amirm said:

Have you ever seen an integrated amplifier without a single volume control on the front panel but individual channel pots on the back?

I didn’t miss it. I ignored it because I see it as spin. @amirm is biased here - I don’t mean that at all in a pejorative way, I mean that he has set metrics he deems important, and is inclined to favor items that perform well on his chosen metrics. Some of his metrics, such as design and build to electrical safety best practices, should certainly be universal. Others are more debatable.

Here, “integrated amp” is wishful thinking.

I only see one input on the back per channel. Yes, there is a switch to choose the format for that input, as found on many amps including my ATI AT4007. But it’s still one input.

That leaves the volume control, which is both overinclusive (badly placed, so as to be too easy to manipulate) and underinclusive (cannot set channels to different levels). That said, a post since my first one points out the dumb thing can be disabled, so that puts it on the level of most consumer amps, which don’t (but should) have a level pot for each channel.

 

[amirm]

Here, “integrated amp” is wishful thinking.

I only see one input on the back per channel. Yes, there is a switch to choose the format for that input, as found on many amps including my ATI AT4007. But it’s still one input.

It is not one input. It is two inputs with different flavors with control in front. This is standard practice in pre-amps to call each an input whether they are the same type or not.

While the world used to be a pre-amp with many sources in a stereo cabinet, that has been transformed with advent of digital. And much more compact desktop systems. Here, you have a DAC as an input and maybe a turntable as another. And that is all. Even my main system is that way with a Reel to Reel replacing the turntable. I don't need any other inputs as to want to have yesterday's pre-amps with many more.

The market is also substantially bigger for this type of system. Tons of people buy bookshelf speakers to flank their desk and powered by an amp like this.

And no, your ATI is not at all the same. Its selection switch is in the back which means it is more of a configuration option than real switching capability. And second, it has no volume control. It is always whaling at full volume.

With these companies being overseas and wanting to optimize shipping costs, they have made desktop their core business. Sure, we can use them outside of that but their core is desktop. And for desktop, this is the definition of a very usable pre-amp. Your ATI amp is not.

 

[Toku]

Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

how loud will pa5 drive the hifiman susvara, the actual sensitivity is 79 db/ unknown 1 vrms or not No-one can answer that without the /missing info. Id suggest contacting susvara to ask them.

www.audiosciencereview.com

Removing the cover of this D-01 module is not easy. This is because the inside is filled with resin and completely molded.
It is necessary to carefully peel off the resin like a dentist scrapes a tooth.
However, if you don't reuse the modules, you can do the decomposition work more easily.

The reason Topping adopted such a structure is to prevent important circuits from being easily copied.
If I had not filled the resin, I think that the trouble of PA5 probably would not have occurred this time.

 

[jhaider]

It is not one input.

We don’t disagree on the underlying facts, only the spin.

And much more compact desktop systems. Here, you have a DAC as an input and maybe a turntable as another. And that is all

The general signal path for a good desktop system employing passive speakers is:

Sources (typically two, computer and phone, which I agree are both generally handled via common DAC; you mention turntables below but it’s exceeding rare to have a turntable in a nearfield/desktop system) -> DSP that works on all the content that could come down from all the sources for EQ/room correction, bass management to allow addition of a sub, and maybe adjustable loudness compensation -> amp(s) -> speakers.

The market is also substantially bigger for this type of system. Tons of people buy bookshelf speakers to flank their desk and powered by an amp like this.

So shouldn’t they be steered to complete solutions that provide the tools (automated or manual) to achieve fidelity from a given set of components and not half-assed background music solutions?

And for desktop, this is the definition of a very usable pre-amp.

This has no EQ or bass management, nor any provision to inject such between master volume control and the amplification. Which is where it has to be, to work on all the content that could come down from all the sources if you consider the balanced and unbalanced inputs separately.

So it simply fails as a “preamp” introduced in 2023. Maybe in 1985 it would’ve been awesome…

 

[amirm]

This has no EQ or bass management, nor any provision to inject such between master volume control and the amplification

It doesn't need It because you apply such in software. On a desk you are assured to have a computer next to it. That is precisely what I do with my Roon player.

 

[jhaider]

It doesn't need It because you apply such in software. On a desk you are assured to have a computer next to it. That is precisely what I do with my Roon player.

I knew that would be your answer, even though it’s a terrible one and clearly doesn’t satisfy the emphasized text in the post you quoted. What about that alleged other input? What about sources on your computer that don’t play through roon? Roon doesn’t even play Apple Music!

 

[anotherhobby]

I knew that would be your answer, even though it’s a terrible one and clearly doesn’t satisfy the emphasized text in the post you quoted. What about that alleged other input? What about sources on your computer that don’t play through roon? Roon doesn’t even play Apple Music!

As a desktop user of a PA5, I can help explain at least my one use case. DSP is done by Dirac on my miniDSP Flex, which feeds the PA5 as well as 4 subs. I like the second input on this amp, even though in my case it has nothing plugged into it. I use it frequently when I want to run REW sweeps on my subs only, I just flip it to the other input to turn off the mains, since that's nicer than powering the amp off and faster than doing it in the miniDSP console. I like the volume knob and use it more frequently than you'd think. Sometimes I think I hear something interesting in music down in the <80 Hz region, and I'll turn the mains down so I can hear the subs alone. I prefer the volume knob for this because I'm actively playing music, and hard cutting the speakers is not nice. I've had my PA5 for almost a year and a half and I've never bumped the volume knob, and if I did it's right in front of my keyboard, so I can fix that pronto.

I'll admit to liking the PA7 being reviewed here, and I think it does work quite nicely as a powerful little desktop amp. If I replaced my current PA5 with a simple 2 channel amp, I'd honestly miss these features that seem kind of useless on the surface, but have turned out to actually be quite handy in daily use.

 

[JSmith]

i would not be surprised if those Hypex amp boards are also made in China. But the Company is EU based.

Seetek EMS SDN BHD is Hypex Electronics's very own Malaysian-based manufacturing affiliate.

Hypex productions facility Seetek EMS SDN BHD

Hypex production at our Malaysian Seetek EMS SDN BHD factory complies with the ISO9001:2015 and ISO 27001:2015 standards.

www.hypex.nl

The reason Topping adopted such a structure is to prevent important circuits from being easily copied.

It is quite a problem actually all over the world, that is ripping off other companies IP.


JSmith

 

[pjug]

The reason Topping adopted such a structure is to prevent important circuits from being easily copied.
If I had not filled the resin, I think that the trouble of PA5 probably would not have occurred this time.

Is that reasonable though? It really looks like they used the circuit in the TI PFFB app note but just pushed too hard. Maybe I am wrong.

 

[theREALdotnet]

Is that reasonable though?

I think it’s silly. Those who want to copy the design for profit will gladly sacrifice an amp to crack open the blackbox and remove the resin. This seems more designed to thwart the casual/curious observer. In the case of the PS Audio “gain cell” that makes sense, they’re basically hiding the fact that the emperor is naked. But what could Topping possibly trying to keep out of sight?

 

[ampguy]

So if I have a PA5 still, and it works great (for now) should I be worried?

Same here. I'm not interested in modding mine with better heatsink or fan, as it just works. I appreciate @JohnYang1997 responses here. It does make me wonder about Apos though, who sold me the first one, and while the first was very useable, cranking it, the source, and putting my ear to the LS50 I could hear the faintest hiss in one channel, so Apos replaced it, and said the one they were sending me was a newer version and had no hiss issues. I authorized them to fully open and test the 2nd, as the first thing I did was test it the same way (it was and is dead quiet), so if there was no interim fix in the passive cooling of the multi op-amp module, then I'm wondering a little about Apos But I have never lost my faith in Topping, and will be happy to buy more, as well as SMSL, etc. That said, I think I will keep my PA5 in the coolest part of the house Thanks again John and Amir. Good products, good measuring. Happy customer here.

 

[EJ3]

Agree. I’m willing to compensate the RCA quality to the XLR. But 2.6Vrms RCA can be found on SMSL SU-10

I use a setup with 2 APT/Holman Preamps ALL connections are RCA including the pre-outs. The following is actual measurements:
Maximum Output Levels measurements top

9.1 VRMS measured at 0.1% THD, tone controls defeated.

8.5 VRMS measured at 0.1% THD, tone controls victorious (engaged). So, I do not see a limitation to driving anything that I want to...

 

[ampguy]

Just thinking out loud here, but my strategy for hoping my PA5 lasts many more years is to just use balanced inputs from a source feeding ~4V+, and keeping the volume pot at noon or less, hoping it goes many many more years trouble free. Also, since I use Roon with 6 or 7 setups (usually no more than 2 or 3 powered up), this will go in the cooler rooms as in the summer to save energy, we let our indoors go up to 77 or so deg F, while the cooler rooms are still low to mid '70s to save on AC bills, while still being comfortable.

 

[EJ3]

Can't say the same. I've been tinkering with gear for 40 years. It happens, but as you say, not to xlr even under the most extreme situations. RCA's are varying sizes and robustness- especially on vintage gear. I've had cinching cables bend weak ones. Recent convert to xlr, but it's clearly a far superior connection. Good to see it on even inexpensive gear these days as a service to the unwashed masses you speak of that are unable to properly effectuate the rca format .

I don't make RCA a requirement and I have one piece of equipment that I have to convert my RCA to XLR in order to make it happen BUT I did not by it because it had XLR connecters, I bought it despite the fact that in only had XLR connections, But it had features I wanted.

 

[EJ3]

We get pretty decent heat here too in Sydney, at least for half of the year. We usually turn on the aircon before it gets to 30ºC inside, though.

If I am sitting still, wearing only short pants, doing absolutely nothing, at 24C I am perspiring, on the other hand, my wife is cold.

 

[JktHifi]

I use a setup with 2 APT/Holman Preamps ALL connections are RCA including the pre-outs. The following is actual measurements:
Maximum Output Levels measurements top

9.1 VRMS measured at 0.1% THD, tone controls defeated.

8.5 VRMS measured at 0.1% THD, tone controls victorious (engaged). So, I do not see a limitation to driving anything that I want to...

It’s big difference to the mentioned spec:
Output Levels

2 V RMS for rated specifications.

 

[Toku]

Is that reasonable though? It really looks like they used the circuit in the TI PFFB app note but just pushed too hard. Maybe I am wrong.

I think that PA5 probably adopts PFFB from the measurement results of amirm.
Looking at the disassembled photo of the input module, as you pointed out, there are too many parts such as op amps. Furthermore, by completely molding it with resin, the heat dissipation effect is completely blocked.