Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

[Lambda]

107 dB with clean power, which will be punishingly loud.

Your over simplifying.

This is peak i assume?! To what RMS value will this translate?
And to what dBA value will this RMS value translate?
Impossibly to know if you don’t know what music he is gonna listening to.

you don't want to expose your household to those 107 dB peaks!

I just clapped my hands generating about 130dB peak... no ones seams to be bothered.

nevertheless with normal compressed music it's likely gonna be loud enough

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

Your over simplifying.

This is peak i assume?! To what RMS value will this translate?
And to what dBA value will this RMS value translate?
Impossibly to know if you don’t know what music he is gonna listening to.


I just clapped my hands generating about 130dB peak... no ones seams to be bothered.

I provided a link to the calculator that I I used. Based on a listening distance of 8 ft and typical room conditions, at least 107 dB continuous (RMS) at the listening position is possible without distortion from the amplifier. I'll correct my post.

That said, hard to say if there's enough peak power to reproduce a 130 dB hand clap without distortion. My guess is not.

 

[Lambda]

at least 107 dB continuous (RMS)

If you play "music" with an crest factor of 1.
unliky but not impossible.

 

[AudioArchitech]

maybe consider getting a Hypex NC252MP amp from Buckeye or Audiophonics….

 

[antcollinet]

Your over simplifying.

This is peak i assume?! To what RMS value will this translate?
And to what dBA value will this RMS value translate?
Impossibly to know if you don’t know what music he is gonna listening to.


I just clapped my hands generating about 130dB peak... no ones seams to be bothered.

nevertheless with normal compressed music it's likely gonna be loud enough

You do seem to mix up RMS vs Peak, and musical crest factor. Or at least, phrase it in a way that can confuse others.

The speakers will happily put out 107dB "RMS" if turned up enough, with enough volts on a DAC/Preamp output. Sure if that is during a quiet part of the music, then the peaks/crescendos of the music are going to distort horribly.

Or if this is during a sustained peak/crescendo of the music, it could last some seconds before the music becomes quieter again. Or if the music is consistently loud all the time- then it can be output for the duration of the song.

In any case, the amp/speaker combo can put out that SPL for sustained periods of time - certainly long enough to risk hearing damage.

 

[Lambda]

Or at least, phrase it in a way that can confuse others.

It seams like it.

The speakers will happily put out 107dB "RMS" if turned up enough, with enough volts on a DAC/Preamp output.

Sure. but so can 5$ smoke alarm with a 9V battery.
If you listen to actual "normal music" with dynamic and most power in the low frequency, it can’t.

107dB sounds like a lot but it is not. but is not necessarily a lot.
Short burst, and low frequency's are not perceived as Loud this why every normal SPL meter is integrating over some time constant and (optionally) waiting the signal.

So if you don’t clip the amplifier and use it to listen to some what normal music the RMS dB(A) SPL will (waht a SPL meter would show you)
will always be WAY lower then 107dB

And this dB(A) RMS values a SPL meter would read is what NIST and OSHA base there recommend exposure limits on

So i find it more "phrased it in a way that can confuse others." to say "107dB" if this no way comparable to the RMS dB(A) numbers we normally uses when we talk about volume.
At least as long as used "with normal music" and not clipping... but i thougt this can be assumed.

For example "RTJ-yankee and the brave (ep. 4)" (loud and compressed pop song) is in dB(A) rms only -15.4dB below its peak.
So based on the 107dB number this would reult in 91.6dB(A) RMS you can listen to this particular song without clipping.

certainly long enough to risk hearing damage.

Well base on my calculation with the particular example trace.
You can listen to music at max. at level that is considers "Save enough" for ~2-8h of exposure.

 

[Cote Dazur]

What would be the next best class d amplifier alternative, same budget, if one wants to keep using a unbalanced preamp?

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

What would be the next best class d amplifier alternative, same budget, if one wants to keep using a unbalanced preamp?

I guess the Aiyima A07, unless you get lucky buying something used. But it's a dramatic step down in performance from the PA5.

AIYIMA A07 TPA3255 Review (Amplifier)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the AIYIMA A07 desktop amplifier based on TPA3255 class D amplifier chip. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me. The cost is US $72 on Amazon including prime shipping. And as of this shipping, it also included a 32 volt, 5...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I've heard/read reports that you can connect an unbalanced source to the PA5 with a suitable cable. You just may not be able to drive it to maximum volume since, IIRC, that requires 2.5 V.

Perhaps something like this will work:

Mogami Gold TS 1/4" Male to RCA Male Audio/Video Patch Cable (75 Ohm) - 6'

Buy Mogami Gold TS 1/4" Male to RCA Male Patch Cable - 6' Review Mogami null

www.bhphotovideo.com

There are lower-cost alternatives, so just from the perspective of design.

 

[Cote Dazur]

I've heard/read reports that you can connect an unbalanced source to the PA5 with a suitable cable. You just may not be able to drive it to maximum volume since, IIRC, that requires 2.5 V

So, you are saying, it will sound as good just not as loud, the cables should not be an issue.

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

So, you are saying, it will sound as good just not as loud, the cables should not be an issue.

It will probably be loud enough. I need to see if I have cables like this that I can try. Although 2.5V is required to drive the PA5 to max volume, I don't recall if "max" is the 48 clean watts into 8Ω that Amir showed on his dashboard or the 10% distortion level that Topping quotes in their specs. If the latter, there's no need to ever go that high.

 

[Cote Dazur]

If the latter, there's no need to ever go that high.

Exactly, I do not listen at high level, on the system I am thinking of using that amp.

 

[antcollinet]

It seams like it.


Sure. but so can 5$ smoke alarm with a 9V battery.
If you listen to actual "normal music" with dynamic and most power in the low frequency, it can’t.

107dB sounds like a lot but it is not. but is not necessarily a lot.
Short burst, and low frequency's are not perceived as Loud this why every normal SPL meter is integrating over some time constant and (optionally) waiting the signal.

So if you don’t clip the amplifier and use it to listen to some what normal music the RMS dB(A) SPL will (waht a SPL meter would show you)
will always be WAY lower then 107dB

And this dB(A) RMS values a SPL meter would read is what NIST and OSHA base there recommend exposure limits on

So i find it more "phrased it in a way that can confuse others." to say "107dB" if this no way comparable to the RMS dB(A) numbers we normally uses when we talk about volume.
At least as long as used "with normal music" and not clipping... but i thougt this can be assumed.

For example "RTJ-yankee and the brave (ep. 4)" (loud and compressed pop song) is in dB(A) rms only -15.4dB below its peak.
So based on the 107dB number this would reult in 91.6dB(A) RMS you can listen to this particular song without clipping.


Well base on my calculation with the particular example trace.
You can listen to music at max. at level that is considers "Save enough" for ~2-8h of exposure.

See - I'm still not convinced we are speaking a common language. When I hear "RMS" and "Peak", I think of specific waveformes - eg Peak of a sine wave is sqrt(2)*RMS or peak of a square wave = RMS of square wave etc.

But I don't think these apply when you are talking about crest factor in music. Crest factor (to me) is more about average level (over duration of the song) compared with the loudest (RMS) sections of a song - ie crescendoed or periods of maximum volume. (Rather than the absolute peak of a waveform in Vp-p)

I fully accept that an instantaneous peak (EG drum hit - or the hand clap you mentioned earier) may hit a peak power output that doesn't register as particularly loud to the ear. But you can also get sections of music in a recording that are just as loud, but for a sustained period.

Is this what you are meaning when talking about "normal music RMS"? Or something different?

 

[Smitty2k1]

I guess the Aiyima A07, unless you get lucky buying something used. But it's a dramatic step down in performance from the PA5.

AIYIMA A07 TPA3255 Review (Amplifier)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the AIYIMA A07 desktop amplifier based on TPA3255 class D amplifier chip. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me. The cost is US $72 on Amazon including prime shipping. And as of this shipping, it also included a 32 volt, 5...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I've heard/read reports that you can connect an unbalanced source to the PA5 with a suitable cable. You just may not be able to drive it to maximum volume since, IIRC, that requires 2.5 V.

Perhaps something like this will work:

Mogami Gold TS 1/4" Male to RCA Male Audio/Video Patch Cable (75 Ohm) - 6'

Buy Mogami Gold TS 1/4" Male to RCA Male Patch Cable - 6' Review Mogami null

www.bhphotovideo.com

There are lower-cost alternatives, so just from the perspective of design.

Why not PA3s? Seems much better than the PA3?

 

[AudioArchitech]

What would be the next best class d amplifier alternative, same budget, if one wants to keep using a unbalanced preamp?

I would look at:
SMSL A0200 or DA9

 

[Ellisr63]

I just ordered one to try on my K402MEHs... for the EV DH1A compression drivers. I am currently using a DIY Icepower 50ASX2BTL. I also have 2 Pass ACA monos to compare it too.

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

Why not PA3s? Seems much better than the PA3?

I forgot about that one. I think the PA5 with an adapter is the best option, but the PA3s would be fine too. Only 2.5 dB less output.

 

[antcollinet]

I forgot about that one. I think the PA5 with an adapter is the best option, but the PA3s would be fine too. Only 2.5 dB less output.

Assuming your source can output 2V, then the PA5 with an RCA to TRS cable will only be 2.28dB less output. And you have the chance to eliminate that drop using an active converter.

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

I finally got around to connecting the PA5 to loudspeakers in the Loft. These little buggers are the Audience ClairAudient 1+1 v4 micro monitors, which I have in for review (about $3k/pair). They use an incredibly small full-range driver (less than 3 inches), one on the front and another on the rear (hence the "1+1" name). An E50 DAC feeds the PA5 plus a pair of SVS 3000 Micro subs. The blue tape marks are where I had my Fritz Carrera 7 BE monitors; the 1+1 monitors work better when placed closer to the listening position. You can't see it, but the network audio transport feeding the E50 DAC is a Raspberry Pi 4 running VitOS.

Before you start: no making fun of my cable lifts! They were a thoughtful gift from my lovely wife. I use them to keep things looking tidy and have no illusions about impact to sound quality.

I have the volume set to maximum on the PA5, and I'm running the E50 in DAC mode (volume also at max). I then use Roon's DSP volume feature to manage playback levels via rooDial.

This is not a permanent installation. My plan is to eventually use the PA5 in a desktop setup with passive nearfield monitors, but I was curious to see how it would fare driving relatively inefficient speakers in a quasi-nearfield setup (~6 ft from ear to speaker).

I'm super impressed by how well the E50 + PA5 stack is able to run this setup. The soundstage is trippy…even startling at times and tonality is excellent. I'm able to reach ~90+ dB average playback levels (according to a smartphone app, C-weighted, slow integration) with no hint of strain from the amplifier or speakers. (my typical playback levels in this treated 15.5 x 10.1 ft room are around 83 dB).

Besides a bit of headroom, I don't feel that I'm missing anything vs my $1.6k/pair Orchard Audio monoblocks (similar SINAD to the PA5, according to the manufacturer). If I did not have my other gear (Gustard X16 DAC, Topping Pre90 preamp, Orchard Audio monoblocks, Fritz Carrera 7 BE monitors), I could be perfectly happy with this little setup.

 

[peng]

Got the E50 set up this morning. Everything works fine but I do have one concern. After installing the driver, it suggested rebooting the PC so I did, then on powering up with the USB connected, the USB input LED started flashing non stop.

According to the manual:

So I thought it has something to do with that but it isn't the case obviously because it would keep flashing regardless of the inputs selected, and whether automatic standby function of on or not. Tried factory reset, no change. Running out of ideas, I re-installed the driver, then although it still flashed for a long time on power up, but it eventually started to work normally. After that, I did unplug the unit and plugged it back in again once and the USB indicator did not flash (may be for a split second).

I really doubt re-installing the driver had fixed it because even the first time, it was installed successfully anyway. I guess I would use it for a few days and then decide whether to return it for a replacement. In the mean time I would appreciate it if anyone has experienced the same and figured out what the cause was. Thank you.

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

Got the E50 set up this morning. Everything works fine but I do have one concern. After installing the driver, it suggested rebooting the PC so I did, then on powering up with the USB connected, the USB input LED started flashing non stop.

According to the manual:

View attachment 197604

So I thought it has something to do with that but it isn't the case obviously because it would keep flashing regardless of the inputs selected, and whether automatic standby function of on or not. Tried factory reset, no change. Running out of ideas, I re-installed the driver, then although it still flashed for a long time on power up, but it eventually started to work normally. After that, I did unplug the unit and plugged it back in again once and the USB indicator did not flash (may be for a split second).

I really doubt re-installing the driver had fixed it because even the first time, it was installed successfully anyway. I guess I would use it for a few days and then decide whether to return it for a replacement. In the mean time I would appreciate it if anyone has experienced the same and figured out what the cause was. Thank you.

I have not seen this issue, but I've only used the E50 with macOS and Linux. I have observed that, after a cold start, the E50 loses sync on USB for the first playback attempt. Subsequent playback attempts work fine. I'm seeing this behavior with Roon Bridge on macOS and Linux, but I've not bothered studying the logs to see what's going on. When it happens again, I'll pay more attention to the LED state and report back.