Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

[terrys999]

It's been said before - a lot of this thread lately has been about finding ways to trash a budget amplifier which has exceptional

Sorry - you're correct. I'd misinterpreted PKanes statement as 1%

So actually the power reduction in this measurement compared with Amir's test is only about 17% or 0.8dB.

You probably can't even hear the difference.

technical performance. You would never achieve 5W output between 19 and 20kHz other than in a PA setup, or with a hugely inefficient speaker system in a massive room. Neither would use a 50W/8 ohm amplifier.....

You all seem very competent ,
Can I ask. I have a second dac mdac plus xlr is rated at 4.5v would this clip my pa5? If so, Could I lower mdac volume?
At moment iam using adi 2 dac xlr out.

Anyone?

 

[antcollinet]

You all seem very competent ,
Can I ask. I have a second dac mdac plus xlr is rated at 4.5v would this clip my pa5? If so, Could I lower mdac volume?
At moment iam using adi 2 dac xlr out.

Anyone?

Even at 4.5 volts it probably won't clip the PA5 input. Obviously if it is outputting 4.5volts, and the PA5 volume is set to max, then the output from the PA5 will clip.

You can either turn down the volume on the PA5 (maximum output will be at less than "fully clockwise"

Or you can turn down the volume on the Dac - setting it to about -5dB will mean a full scale signal will output the 2.6V the PA5 needs for full output.

An alternate suggestion - with the PA5 at full volume, and the DAC at minimum volume, play your loudest music. Turn up the DAC until it is the loudest you are ever likely to want, and leave the dac at that volume.

Then use the volume control on the PA5 to turn it down to normal listening levels. (Or you can do it the other way - use the PA5 volume contol to set the loudest limit, then control the volume on the DAC)

 

[terrys999]

Even at 4.5 volts it probably won't clip the PA5 input. Obviously if it is outputting 4.5volts, and the PA5 volume is set to max, then the output from the PA5 will clip.

You can either turn down the volume on the PA5 (maximum output will be at less than "fully clockwise"

Or you can turn down the volume on the Dac - setting it to about -5dB will mean a full scale signal will output the 2.6V the PA5 needs for full output.

An alternate suggestion - with the PA5 at full volume, and the DAC at minimum volume, play your loudest music. Turn up the DAC until it is the loudest you are ever likely to want, and leave the dac at that volume.

Then use the volume control on the PA5 to turn it down to normal listening levels. (Or you can do it the other way - use the PA5 volume contol to set the loudest limit, then control the volume on the DAC)

Thank you very much for your explanation cool.
I might leave dac at 0 volume and slowly raise pa5 volume. That way I wouldn’t loose any sn on dac.
Then again if I lowered dac by 5db I would get 115db which is fine . Thanks again cheers..

 

[nagster]

Hi there.
Could you give me some advice.
I just bought the pa5 I have it connected to my adi 2 dac fs xlr to trs , seems to sound fine.
My dilemma is I also own mdac plus the xlr voltage output is 4.5 xlr. Rca out of Mdac Plus is 2.2.5

Is it safe for Mdac Plus xlr to pa5? I noticed you used an higher voltage without clipping,
Any advice????

This link may be helpful.

Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

Hi all, can I use a RCA to TS (unbalanced) cable? Can it damage the amp? You can use RCA to TS cables or adapters. No problem. However, the maximum output (1% THD+N ratio) is reduced by about 15% and THD+N ratio is worsened by 0.0001%...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[terrys999]

This link may be helpful.

Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

Hi all, can I use a RCA to TS (unbalanced) cable? Can it damage the amp? You can use RCA to TS cables or adapters. No problem. However, the maximum output (1% THD+N ratio) is reduced by about 15% and THD+N ratio is worsened by 0.0001%...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thank you for the link.

To be honest iam still finding it very confusing.
Iam not an expert. Iam just a guy who loves music . Iam in my early 60s

What confuses me is the loads of people saying it can only handle 2.6 v anything above will clip ext.
Amir only tested the pa5 with 2 v, why didn’t he test xlr 4? Your link shows you can use 4v , to be honest iam loosing interest the enjoyment is rapidly disappearing.

Forgot to add...
This amp specs show 65 w at 8ohm max before distortion, and yet Amir tops at 48.

I see lots of posts saying 50 w max. Which brings me back to is that rca 2v.


The e50 is the dac recommended by topping 4.2 v out balanced to the pa5 I use my adi 2 dac fs also tried my mdac plus, which outputs 4.5v.
My speakers are ma bronze 6 90db 8ohm.

Thanks for the link ect.. but may just sell the pa the clipping fear is distracting me from enjoying my music.
Thanks again

 

[antcollinet]

Thank you for the link.

To be honest iam still finding it very confusing.
Iam not an expert. Iam just a guy who loves music . Iam in my early 60s

What confuses me is the loads of people saying it can only handle 2.6 v anything above will clip ext.
Amir only tested the pa5 with 2 v, why didn’t he test xlr 4? Your link shows you can use 4v , to be honest iam loosing interest the enjoyment is rapidly disappearing.

Forgot to add...
This amp specs show 65 w at 8ohm max before distortion, and yet Amir tops at 48.

I see lots of posts saying 50 w max. Which brings me back to is that rca 2v.


The e50 is the dac recommended by topping 4.2 v out balanced to the pa5 I use my adi 2 dac fs also tried my mdac plus, which outputs 4.5v.
My speakers are ma bronze 6 90db 8ohm.

Thanks for the link ect.. but may just sell the pa the clipping fear is distracting me from enjoying my music.
Thanks again

OK - one at a time.

2.6V is the voltage input the amp needs to output full power. Beyond full power, the output of the amp will clip. BUT if you turn down the amp volume, then even at >2.6V the amp won't deliver full power and so won't clip.


When Amir tests amplifiers, he rates the maximum power at just before the point where the amplifier just starts to clip. Topping (and many other manufacturers) rate maximum power as being the point where clipping results in 1% distortion (-40dB distortion). If you look at the power/distortion curve in Amirs test, you can see it more or less horizontal, until (Amir's) max power is hit, then it turns sharply upwards. Amir's rating is immediately on the corner of that turn. Toppings rating will be when the up turning line reaches -40dB. It is likely that most people won't hear the -40dB clipping - or at least it won't be too objectionable.

Clipping isn't a disaster. It doesn't damage the amp, and as long as you keep the levels down below the point where distortion is audible it won't harm your speakers either. This level is probably well above where you'd want to be listening anyway.

 

[terrys999]

A mate is dropping off another pair of xlr to trs.
Going to connect the mdac plus with my adi. And level match.
See how it sounds.

 

[antcollinet]

Level matched I doubt you'll hear a difference - at least if you don't know which one is playing.

 

[Bleib]

I guess 999 wants to know if 4.5v max output from the dac is too much for the amp to take in. Isn't normal XLR 4v?

 

[antcollinet]

I guess 999 wants to know if 4.5v max output from the dac is too much for the amp to take in. Isn't normal XLR 4v?

And - as I've explained more than once, it isn't.

 

[terrys999]

Level matched I doubt you'll hear a difference - at least if you don't know which

Level matched I doubt you'll hear a difference - at least if you don't know which one is playing.

Ok
I understand.
As for level matching
There’s a big difference with the mdac plus.
Example. Connecting adi to cxa80 no volume difference between xlr and rca. Adi outputis 6 dB higher
And yet no volume difference. Rme explain this.
Same goes for the cxn xlr or rca not difference.
Now mdac plus is louder xlr 4.5 v rca louder than rca on other Dacs.
Adi to pa5 volume on a track at say 10 o’clock to get same volume on mdac it’s around 7 o’clock.
Big difference.

 

[antcollinet]

Your cxa80 is unbalanced, so when you connect XLR to it you can only use the hot signal which is half the amplitude of the balanced signal.

 

[peng]

Thank you for the link.

To be honest iam still finding it very confusing.
Iam not an expert. Iam just a guy who loves music . Iam in my early 60s

What confuses me is the loads of people saying it can only handle 2.6 v anything above will clip ext.
Amir only tested the pa5 with 2 v, why didn’t he test xlr 4? Your link shows you can use 4v , to be honest iam loosing interest the enjoyment is rapidly disappearing.

Forgot to add...
This amp specs show 65 w at 8ohm max before distortion, and yet Amir tops at 48.

I see lots of posts saying 50 w max. Which brings me back to is that rca 2v.


The e50 is the dac recommended by topping 4.2 v out balanced to the pa5 I use my adi 2 dac fs also tried my mdac plus, which outputs 4.5v.
My speakers are ma bronze 6 90db 8ohm.

Thanks for the link ect.. but may just sell the pa the clipping fear is distracting me from enjoying my music.
Thanks again

It is not hard to be confused, for various reasons. In my previous post#4437 linked below, I tried to explain that whether it can drive your MA Bronze 6 well (and without the risk of clipping) or not mainly depends on your listening habits. That would typically include information on your seating distance and maximum desirable SPL.

Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

I could hear the difference between Balanced Pecanpi and Unbalanced E30 DAC if that means anything to you

www.audiosciencereview.com

Whether the dac can output 2 V, 4 V (balanced or unbalanced), or higher is usually not the key factor especially if you are using it with a preamp or integrated amp like the Topping PA5 because it would then depend mostly on your volume setting.

If you don't mind reading that post, and tonycollinet's again, tell us which parts you find confusing, then may be we can help clarify things further for you.

Or if you would just tell us your seating distance, and the maximum spl (sound pressure level) you would like to listen to, I (or others) should be able to tell you whether your PA5 amp would "clip" during normal use in your specific application.

I don't remember if I mentioned the use of an online SPL, or power requirement calculator before, you can play with them to get an idea as well.
If you know the "unclipped" output power you need, you don't need to worry about the DAC voltage because you do have the output power and gain/input sensitivity specs for the Topping amp.

Peak SPL Calculator

Crown Audio - Professional Power Amplifiers | English (US)

www.crownaudio.com

 

[terrys999]

Ok all sorted
Wow didn’t realise you need little power.

Speaker sensitive 90db
Iam 4 meters from speakers
dBSPL between 70 to 75db
Headroom 3

Calculations tell me 2 w
Dam thats low.

Thanks for all your help
Cheers.

 

[terrys999]

After carefully placing my towers, inch by inch, I was fully satisfied. Lovely sound. Terrific. Took around a week...
After a trip I returned home and discovered a glitch in the sound...and a chair that had been misplaced by someone...
Now I know what it was: Analysis of the seat-dip effect in an opera house...

Many thanks !!!! My relatives nearly said I was mad, I knew I wasn't.

Which speakers do you have?

 

[F1308]

Which speakers do you have?

Mythos ST.
Recommended Amp Power (watts): 20–350.

 

[JackShepard]

Hi for all, dear friends!

Can you say to me how PA5 will play with Deftech Demand D11 through XLR (TRS) connection from Topping D30 Pro+A30 Pro (bypass TRS-TRS) in technical view? If it not playable, can you tell me why? High sensitivity of D11 and recommended power 20-200W.

 

[antcollinet]

Hi for all, dear friends!

Can you say to me how PA5 will play with Deftech Demand D11 through XLR (TRS) connection from Topping D30 Pro+A30 Pro (bypass TRS-TRS) in technical view? If it not playable, can you tell me why? High sensitivity of D11 and recommended power 20-200W.

Reasonably sensitive speakers. It will be fine.

 

[JackShepard]

Reasonably sensitive speakers. It will be fine.

Unfortunately, NO. Not fine. Absolutely no controlling in bass. Has no punch and attack.

The sound has obvious dips at 136 and 188 Hz (about 5-8 dB). It sounds very dull and at the level of cheap multimedia speakers. There is no separation in the scene, everything is mush, concentrated in the center.
Fortunately, I had a Rotel 1552 mk2 from floorstanding speakers and here really 130 Watts showed itself. And you can still add by putting something like RA-1592 or even Michi X3 in the system.
PA5 doesn't play, not at all. It is a silent horror.
What was also very surprising is that with the volume control turned to zero I can still hear the playback. Only if you lower the DAC volume by 10 dB, then the sound can't be heard.
Alas, not everything is conditioned by SINAD. My mistake was to take such a powerful, but "perfect" amplifier for the speakers, which are not born to play with amplifiers of this level. I don't understand how it plays with lower sensitivity and more demanding models.

 

[IPunchCholla]

Unfortunately, NO. Not fine. Absolutely no controlling in bass. Has no punch and attack.

The sound has obvious dips at 136 and 188 Hz (about 5-8 dB). It sounds very dull and at the level of cheap multimedia speakers. There is no separation in the scene, everything is mush, concentrated in the center.
Fortunately, I had a Rotel 1552 mk2 from floorstanding speakers and here really 130 Watts showed itself. And you can still add by putting something like RA-1592 or even Michi X3 in the system.
PA5 doesn't play, not at all. It is a silent horror.
What was also very surprising is that with the volume control turned to zero I can still hear the playback. Only if you lower the DAC volume by 10 dB, then the sound can't be heard.
Alas, not everything is conditioned by SINAD. My mistake was to take such a powerful, but "perfect" amplifier for the speakers, which are not born to play with amplifiers of this level. I don't understand how it plays with lower sensitivity and more demanding models.

Do you have a measurement mic? If so it would be cool to demonstrate your claims by running REW measurements from the two amps on the same speakers.