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Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

JackShepard

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Reasonably sensitive speakers. It will be fine.
Unfortunately, NO. Not fine. Absolutely no controlling in bass. Has no punch and attack.

The sound has obvious dips at 136 and 188 Hz (about 5-8 dB). It sounds very dull and at the level of cheap multimedia speakers. There is no separation in the scene, everything is mush, concentrated in the center.
Fortunately, I had a Rotel 1552 mk2 from floorstanding speakers and here really 130 Watts showed itself. And you can still add by putting something like RA-1592 or even Michi X3 in the system.
PA5 doesn't play, not at all. It is a silent horror.
What was also very surprising is that with the volume control turned to zero I can still hear the playback. Only if you lower the DAC volume by 10 dB, then the sound can't be heard.
Alas, not everything is conditioned by SINAD. My mistake was to take such a powerful, but "perfect" amplifier for the speakers, which are not born to play with amplifiers of this level. I don't understand how it plays with lower sensitivity and more demanding models.
 

IPunchCholla

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Unfortunately, NO. Not fine. Absolutely no controlling in bass. Has no punch and attack.

The sound has obvious dips at 136 and 188 Hz (about 5-8 dB). It sounds very dull and at the level of cheap multimedia speakers. There is no separation in the scene, everything is mush, concentrated in the center.
Fortunately, I had a Rotel 1552 mk2 from floorstanding speakers and here really 130 Watts showed itself. And you can still add by putting something like RA-1592 or even Michi X3 in the system.
PA5 doesn't play, not at all. It is a silent horror.
What was also very surprising is that with the volume control turned to zero I can still hear the playback. Only if you lower the DAC volume by 10 dB, then the sound can't be heard.
Alas, not everything is conditioned by SINAD. My mistake was to take such a powerful, but "perfect" amplifier for the speakers, which are not born to play with amplifiers of this level. I don't understand how it plays with lower sensitivity and more demanding models.
Do you have a measurement mic? If so it would be cool to demonstrate your claims by running REW measurements from the two amps on the same speakers.
 

antcollinet

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Unfortunately, NO. Not fine. Absolutely no controlling in bass. Has no punch and attack.

The sound has obvious dips at 136 and 188 Hz (about 5-8 dB). It sounds very dull and at the level of cheap multimedia speakers. There is no separation in the scene, everything is mush, concentrated in the center.
Fortunately, I had a Rotel 1552 mk2 from floorstanding speakers and here really 130 Watts showed itself. And you can still add by putting something like RA-1592 or even Michi X3 in the system.
PA5 doesn't play, not at all. It is a silent horror.
What was also very surprising is that with the volume control turned to zero I can still hear the playback. Only if you lower the DAC volume by 10 dB, then the sound can't be heard.
Alas, not everything is conditioned by SINAD. My mistake was to take such a powerful, but "perfect" amplifier for the speakers, which are not born to play with amplifiers of this level. I don't understand how it plays with lower sensitivity and more demanding models.
It Also has high damping factor - I’m struggling to take your statement at face value without some evidence behind it.
 

JackShepard

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Do you have a measurement mic? If so it would be cool to demonstrate your claims by running REW measurements from the two amps on the same speakers.
Мeasured with Spectroid on the phone (not exact, but for the first time I heard two dips, as if even the phase changes, and tactilely the speaker lost in the amplitude of the vibrations at all. With RB-1552 sags disappeared and there was less uncontrolled oscillation at the low end. Now both the passive radiator and the bass speaker are matched, and before it was as if they lived separately. And the picture of the amplitude-frequency response is roughly similar to what was presented here earlier in the reviews.
I do not want to enter into polemics, only to caution to take amplifiers comparable in power. I do not want to like what does not play right.
Perhaps later I will throw the phone measurements. I think even this will be enough to understand how different AFR is.
 

JackShepard

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It Also has high damping factor - I’m struggling to take your statement at face value without some evidence behind it.
Are there any approximate values for the damping factor of the PA5? As far as I remember, the D class has a high one, or am I wrong?
I also forgot to mention that before the PA5 there was a Rotel RA-10 (40W) and they played about the same. Maybe the PA5 had a little more control, but it's almost placebo level.
The RA-10 has a damping factor of 180. But the same RA-10 played well with Canton GLE 470.2 (though after 30 minutes of playing it overheated and went to the protection).
 

IPunchCholla

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Мeasured with Spectroid on the phone (not exact, but for the first time I heard two dips, as if even the phase changes, and tactilely the speaker lost in the amplitude of the vibrations at all. With RB-1552 sags disappeared and there was less uncontrolled oscillation at the low end. Now both the passive radiator and the bass speaker are matched, and before it was as if they lived separately. And the picture of the amplitude-frequency response is roughly similar to what was presented here earlier in the reviews.
I do not want to enter into polemics, only to caution to take amplifiers comparable in power. I do not want to like what does not play right.
Perhaps later I will throw the phone measurements. I think even this will be enough to understand how different AFR is.
This is a new area for me, so I’m not doubting, I just would love to see the info so I can make sure I understand the physics behind what is happening.
 

JackShepard

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This is a new area for me, so I’m not doubting, I just would love to see the info so I can make sure I understand the physics behind what is happening.
No problem! I think there are people who have similar problems. We have few people who buy acoustics and components blindly. It's very easy to order the right set-up in showrooms and listen to all the bundles of interest.
Maybe someone will be interested in a similar situation and check it out for himself. But in my situation there was absolutely no control, as if the damping factor was at 100.
I don't know, I'm still interested to try PA5 with Canton 470.2. Maybe this combination will show itself somehow different
 

terrys999

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No problem! I think there are people who have similar problems. We have few people who buy acoustics and components blindly. It's very easy to order the right set-up in showrooms and listen to all the bundles of interest.
Maybe someone will be interested in a similar situation and check it out for himself. But in my situation there was absolutely no control, as if the damping factor was at 100.
I don't know, I'm still interested to try PA5 with Canton 470.2. Maybe this combination will show itself somehow different

Would pa5 provide enough power for this speakers? Specs are 110 / 170 watts.
 

AudioArchitech

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Should work fine. You won't get the maximum volume out of those speakers but it will still be very loud. As long as the PA5 isn't defective that is.
 

antcollinet

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Unfortunately, NO. Not fine. Absolutely no controlling in bass. Has no punch and attack.

The sound has obvious dips at 136 and 188 Hz (about 5-8 dB). It sounds very dull and at the level of cheap multimedia speakers. There is no separation in the scene, everything is mush, concentrated in the center.
Fortunately, I had a Rotel 1552 mk2 from floorstanding speakers and here really 130 Watts showed itself. And you can still add by putting something like RA-1592 or even Michi X3 in the system.
PA5 doesn't play, not at all. It is a silent horror.
What was also very surprising is that with the volume control turned to zero I can still hear the playback. Only if you lower the DAC volume by 10 dB, then the sound can't be heard.
Alas, not everything is conditioned by SINAD. My mistake was to take such a powerful, but "perfect" amplifier for the speakers, which are not born to play with amplifiers of this level. I don't understand how it plays with lower sensitivity and more demanding models.
Can I ask why you asked the question if you (thought) you knew the answer?
 

Toku

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Unfortunately, NO. Not fine. Absolutely no controlling in bass. Has no punch and attack.

The sound has obvious dips at 136 and 188 Hz (about 5-8 dB). It sounds very dull and at the level of cheap multimedia speakers. There is no separation in the scene, everything is mush, concentrated in the center.
Fortunately, I had a Rotel 1552 mk2 from floorstanding speakers and here really 130 Watts showed itself. And you can still add by putting something like RA-1592 or even Michi X3 in the system.
PA5 doesn't play, not at all. It is a silent horror.
What was also very surprising is that with the volume control turned to zero I can still hear the playback. Only if you lower the DAC volume by 10 dB, then the sound can't be heard.
Alas, not everything is conditioned by SINAD. My mistake was to take such a powerful, but "perfect" amplifier for the speakers, which are not born to play with amplifiers of this level. I don't understand how it plays with lower sensitivity and more demanding models.
Why do you compare $ 400 amp products to products that cost more than $ 3000 or $ 5000? It's too stupid.
 

Rottmannash

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Unfortunately, NO. Not fine. Absolutely no controlling in bass. Has no punch and attack.

The sound has obvious dips at 136 and 188 Hz (about 5-8 dB). It sounds very dull and at the level of cheap multimedia speakers. There is no separation in the scene, everything is mush, concentrated in the center.
Fortunately, I had a Rotel 1552 mk2 from floorstanding speakers and here really 130 Watts showed itself. And you can still add by putting something like RA-1592 or even Michi X3 in the system.
PA5 doesn't play, not at all. It is a silent horror.
What was also very surprising is that with the volume control turned to zero I can still hear the playback. Only if you lower the DAC volume by 10 dB, then the sound can't be heard.
Alas, not everything is conditioned by SINAD. My mistake was to take such a powerful, but "perfect" amplifier for the speakers, which are not born to play with amplifiers of this level. I don't understand how it plays with lower sensitivity and more demanding models.
I ran the PA5 through my main set-up with F208's and while the volume didn't deafen me it was quite impressive. As I reported earlier in this thread he bass authority wasn't equal to the Purifi but it wasn't far behind and far ahead of my other A/B amps. "at the level of cheap multimedia speakers" ? Perhaps it IS your speakers and not the amp then.
 

JackShepard

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Would pa5 provide enough power for this speakers? Specs are 110 / 170 watts.
I think, that no. But I want to test it.
Why do you compare $ 400 amp products to products that cost more than $ 3000 or $ 5000?
Exactly because it is often talked about in this thread. Plus IIWI's review on youtube, where he compares the PA5 with the Hegel H90.
the volume didn't deafen me it was quite impressive
Volume is not a measure of power. PA5 plays about 3-5 dB louder, but the power is 4 times lower.
Perhaps it IS your speakers and not the amp then
As shown by the replacement of the amplifier, the problem was in it. Before the purchase I had listened to these speakers with Yamaha A-S1200 and McIntosh MA9000 amplifiers, and they were quite good by hi-fi standards. With the PA5 I had a strong feeling that I was listening to completely different speakers.
 

Selkirks

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As shown by the replacement of the amplifier, the problem was in it. Before the purchase I had listened to these speakers with Yamaha A-S1200 and McIntosh MA9000 amplifiers, and they were quite good by hi-fi standards. With the PA5 I had a strong feeling that I was listening to completely different speakers.

The PA5 powered my Odeon No.28 SE, Martin Logan Montis and Atohm GT1's just as well as my McIntosh MA-8000 integrated. I found the presentation to be more clear and detailed than the McIntosh, but that could be the DAC used. Maybe in a large room the results would be different. Not sure why it would have issues powering the Def Techs.
 

JackShepard

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Not sure why it would have issues powering the Def Techs.
You have deftechs? :) I have and I told about issues) Why guess and try to find something when the problem of lack of power lies on the surface. I think the Demand series is not simple, because the specified power range is very wide 20-200 watts
 

JackShepard

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Sold Definitive Technology at the audio store I managed, including the Demand series. I'm surprised the PA5 is not capable of driving the D11's.
Perhaps the speakers require pure power, not a special damping factor. It's hard to say why they didn't play. :(
 

raest

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my KEF R7s, as well as my wife's Quad S2s sound exactly the same through the PA5, my old Marantz PM7200, a Pionner receiver my boss lent me while i sent the PA5 back for replacement, and my now new Lyngdorf TDAI 1120 (with RoomPerfect disabled)
 
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