Topping E30 II DAC Review

[Deleted member 65547]

Maybe it's already been said, in which case I apologize. What is the advantage of pairing two DAC chips into an unbalanced device?

 

[Ahmonge]

Maybe it's already been said, in which case I apologize. What is the advantage of pairing two DAC chips into an unbalanced device?

Using one DAC for each channel.

 

[Deleted member 65547]

Using one DAC for each channel.

Ok, but this simply shifts the question without solving it: why should pairing two DAC channels to obtain an unbalanced channel improve performance?
It seems this could lead to a loss of coherence in the digital splitting of the two channels to be sent to the pair of DACs, and in fact in his measurements Amir found jitter problems.
It seems that the only expected improvement is the halving of the output impedance of each channel, but I don't see why the other parameters should improve.
But I'm probably missing something.

 

[staticV3]

Ok, but this simply shifts the question without solving it: why should pairing two DAC channels to obtain an unbalanced channel improve performance?

Every doubling of DAC chips reduces noise by 3dB.
That's because the signal sums coherently (+6dB) whereas noise sums incoherently (+3dB). Result is an effective 3dB reduction in noise relative to the signal.

It seems this could lead to a loss of coherence in the digital splitting of the two channels to be sent to the pair of DACs, and in fact in his measurements Amir found jitter problems.

Jitter yes, but definitely no loss of coherence:

Both channels match perfectly in amplitude and phase.

 

[Deleted member 65547]

Every doubling of DAC chips reduces noise by 3dB.
That's because the signal sums coherently (+6dB) whereas noise sums incoherently (+3dB). Result is an effective 3dB reduction in noise relative to the signal.

I have to think about this.
Why should coupling two identical and perfectly in-phase final stages lead to quadrupling the available power (+6 dB) and not simply doubling it (+3 dB)?
If I couple two identical and in-phase final stages, the available power will be the sum of the two... where do the other 3dB come from?

 

[Deleted member 65547]

Jitter yes, but definitely no loss of coherence:
View attachment 314459
Both channels match perfectly in amplitude and phase.

Was this achieved from USB or does it S/PDIF?

 

[Rja4000]

I have to think about this.
Why should coupling two identical and perfectly in-phase final stages lead to quadrupling the power (+6 dB) and not simply doubling it (+3 dB)?

Doubling the signal amplitude (in Volt) gives you 4 times the power (V*V/Z)
.
For the difference with noise, it's statistical.

Two coherent signals will just sum up.
Two sine wave at same phase and frequency will sum as one sine wave at the same phase and frequency but with double the amplitude (+6dB).

Noise is random. Gaussian noise follows a gaussian law around 0 (the mean).
The standard deviation gives you the noise amplitude.

How are two uncorrelated gaussian functions of same mean and standard deviation summing ?
Statistical laws tell us they form a new gaussian function with mean equals to the sum of means (here, 0+0=0) and new variance equals to sum of variances.
Variance is the square of the standard deviation.
So summing 2 uncorrelated gaussian noises will give you a gaussian noise with sqrt(2) times the noise amplitude (+3dB).

Then this 3dB SNR increase.
Note that not all noise is completely uncorrelated. Therefore, usually, SNR increase is a bit less than 3dB.

 

[Deleted member 65547]

Doubling the signal amplitude (in Volt) gives you 4 times the power (V*V/Z)

I hadn't taken into consideration the series connection of the two branches of the AK4493S because I thought it was a prohibited configuration, obviously I was wrong.
However, this doubles the output impedance, making the device more sensitive to load variations.
Furthermore, for the same load, an increase in distortion is expected
I don't know... I would have to do a direct comparison with my Sanskrit MK3.
In principle it would also be possible to pair two Sanskrits after sharing the clocks, which is not at all difficult.
Unfortunately Amir has never tested an MK3, which seems to me to sound very good, albeit with a preference for 24 bit streams.

What you say about the statistical sum of two uncorrelated noise sources is correct, and in fact I wasn't referring to noise.

 

[biniek]

Hi
Can someone please help and provide me with the correct firmware version for this DAC?
I wanted to update the firmware and downloaded wrong file (for E30ii lite) and now the unit is not working. It displays only "auto and -3" and is not reacting. There is no any on topping website

 

[Sokel]

Hi
Can someone please help and provide me with the correct firmware version for this DAC?
I wanted to update the firmware and downloaded wrong file (for E30ii lite) and now the unit is not working. It displays only "auto and -3" and is not reacting. There is no any on topping website

Until you find it there must be sure be a way to reset it to the original FW.
Search around for the way to do it.

 

[staticV3]

Hi
Can someone please help and provide me with the correct firmware version for this DAC?
I wanted to update the firmware and downloaded wrong file (for E30ii lite) and now the unit is not working. It displays only "auto and -3" and is not reacting. There is no any on topping website

According to Topping, your E30 II should be bricked, requiring being sent back to Topping for repair:


Does the firmware update tool still recognize your E30 II?

 

[biniek]

According to Topping, your E30 II should be bricked, requiring being sent back to Topping for repair:
View attachment 319591

Does the firmware update tool still recognize your E30 II?

Yes it does it displays the e30II
In FAQ they recommend to switch to previous firmware but i cant find any

 

[Sokel]

According to Topping, your E30 II should be bricked, requiring being sent back to Topping for repair:

That's ridiculous,how can that be so easy?
Isn't there a failsafe to all this?

 

[staticV3]

Yes it does it displays the e30II
In FAQ they recommend to switch to previous firmware but i cant find any

Have you tried contacting them at [email protected]?

 

[staticV3]

That's ridiculous,how can that be so easy?
Isn't there a failsafe to all this?

Topping's update tool does not check for firmware compatibility before writing that firmware to the device.

If it did, then Topping would not have to put warnings on their website like the one in the screenshot above.

 

[Toku]

Hi
Can someone please help and provide me with the correct firmware version for this DAC?
I wanted to update the firmware and downloaded wrong file (for E30ii lite) and now the unit is not working. It displays only "auto and -3" and is not reacting. There is no any on topping website

please do not worry. Your E30 ll can be restored.

The original FW version is V1.13. I had it sent to me by Topping some time ago and I keep it there.
Click on the attached file E30 II_FW1.13.bin.zip to download and delete the .zip in the file name. Or download and unzip E30 II_FW1.13.zip.
You can return to the original FW by specifying E30 II_FW1.13.bin using the E30 ll Lite FW tool and performing the same operation.

ASR does not allow you to directly upload .bin files, so I upload them with .zip as the attached file name.

Topping's FW display is very misleading. I'm sure there are other people who install it by mistake.

postscript
After starting the update tool ToppingUsbAudioDfu.exe, specify E30 II_FW1.13.bin in Browse.

 

[biniek]

please do not worry. Your E30 ll can be restored.

The original FW version is V1.13. I had it sent to me by Topping some time ago and I keep it there.
Click on the attached file E30 II_FW1.13.bin.zip to download and delete the .zip in the file name. Or download and unzip E30 II_FW1.13.zip.
You can return to the original FW by specifying E30 II_FW1.13.bin using the E30 ll Lite FW tool and performing the same operation.

ASR does not allow you to directly upload .bin files, so I upload them with .zip as the attached file name.

Topping's FW display is very misleading. I'm sure there are other people who install it by mistake.

postscript
After starting the update tool ToppingUsbAudioDfu.exe, specify E30 II_FW1.13.bin in Browse.

many thanks!!!
it helped and now it is working again
best regards

 

[Toku]

many thanks!!!
it helped and now it is working again
best regards

I'm glad I was able to help you.
It is a good idea to save the E30 II_FW1.13.bin file for future reference.

 

[biniek]

Thank you once again
Much appreciated
Take care

 

[goxhe]

Hi,
I have this adapter from my old router:

It is DC5V 1A adapter, exact specs that E30 II needs. So, using this dedicated 5V adapter would be better or should i go for a USB adapter? Thanks.