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Topping E30 DAC Review

AndyLu

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Do those stats include all those office PCs which are of dubious relevance to the topic at hand?

FWIW I'm a mostly happy Windows user myself.

Of course those stats don't include that. Also those stats do not include MACS on the topic at hand. That is completely besides the point isn't it? I was reacting to someone who got upset that there is no firmware updater for the MAC. I wasn't even reacting to you.
 

mykeldg

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This update is a firmware update for USB connection, COAX and OPT may not have been related.
I'm with you that update was done through USB interface but shouldn't the update affect the DAC as a whole and not just the interface from which it used to update the device?
 

NgxHS7

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I'm with you that update was done through USB interface but shouldn't the update affect the DAC as a whole and not just the interface from which it used to update the device?

That would make the most sense. It shouldn't matter how the update was installed.
 

facboy

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Of course those stats don't include that. Also those stats do not include MACS on the topic at hand. That is completely besides the point isn't it? I was reacting to someone who got upset that there is no firmware updater for the MAC. I wasn't even reacting to you.

those stats seemed a bit off to me. but you're right, i shall butt out. i agree that it should be 'relatively' easy to get access to a Windows machine that can do the update, it does literally take 2 or 3 minutes.
 

somebodyelse

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Come over here and help us sorting it out :p The XMOS upgrader is a sub component from the package of the driver provider. I haven't seen anyone else done it yet. Please inform me my friend.
Based on your response last time I brought this up I assumed you weren't using the standard XMOS update process. The suggestion I linked there worked for Khadas (their code is on github and almost identical to the XMOS example code), but is CLI only. I'm not a Mac user and I know there have been updates to the OS since, so it's possible they've blocked that now, but it's still fine for linux. I can understand why you'd not want to ask most customers to use a CLI though - given that Khadas also do SBCs using linux they probably have different expectations of their customers.

I assume your driver provider is Thesycon, who claim to have DFU GUIs for Mac and linux as well as Windows. Does theirs not actually work as advertised?

I should probably see about getting generic XMOS support added to fwupd which would make it much easier for manufacturers to support updates on linux.
 

mykeldg

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some subjective observations:

  • negative polarity sounds thinner on my 2-channel system compared to the positive/fixed one. (Dynaudio Speakers)
  • Now after the update, when I use USB, it sounds fuller with the soundstage projecting forward.
  • When I use optical (with presumably negative polarity), the soundstage is flat and doesn't project forward, but wider, and kinda sounds leaner
I don't know the science behind this and just sharing my observations. Before the update, I could not hear a difference between USB and optical. I hope topping can fix optical/coax since I am using the optical interface for my TV
 

yejun

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Of course those stats don't include that. Also those stats do not include MACS on the topic at hand. That is completely besides the point isn't it? I was reacting to someone who got upset that there is no firmware updater for the MAC. I wasn't even reacting to you.

In USA, majority of my coworkers are Mac only users except a few PC gamers. Borrowing a PC from someone else I feel very unreasonable. I hesitate to install 3rd party software on my main computer needless to say allowing other people installing drivers. My latest laptop (surface pro x) is arm based which cannot install drivers at all.
 

Tup3x

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In USA, majority of my coworkers are Mac only users except a few PC gamers. Borrowing a PC from someone else I feel very unreasonable. I hesitate to install 3rd party software on my main computer needless to say allowing other people installing drivers. My latest laptop (surface pro x) is arm based which cannot install drivers at all.
For mac users bootcamp would solve it.

I hope that ARM would gain more popularity and companies would target Windows 10 ARM too.
 

Toku

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I'm with you that update was done through USB interface but shouldn't the update affect the DAC as a whole and not just the interface from which it used to update the device?
There are two main types of DAC firmware.

One is firmware related to USB connection, which rewrites the control program in the XMOS chip. This update of Ver1.08 is an update of this part, and users can do it using a PC.

The other is the firmware of the controller called MCU. The MCU is a small one-chip PC and is in charge of controlling the DAC.
A special tool is required to update this firmware, and it must be returned to the factory. Unfortunately, the user cannot update this firmware.
Please read #687
 

Zek

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iFi Audio has firmware for both PC and Mac.
How can they do that?
Screenshot 2020-05-21 at 16.34.55.png
 

mykeldg

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There are two main types of DAC firmware.

One is firmware related to USB connection, which rewrites the control program in the XMOS chip. This update of Ver1.08 is an update of this part, and users can do it using a PC.

The other is the firmware of the controller called MCU. The MCU is a small one-chip PC and is in charge of controlling the DAC.
A special tool is required to update this firmware, and it must be returned to the factory. Unfortunately, the user cannot update this firmware.
Please read #687
thanks for the reference. that's a bummer. time to sell the e30.
 

Aldoszx

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I think you can compile XMOS DFU loader for Mac.
This guide can help you. The source could be downloaded from here.
Also, here is a topic about that.
 

NgxHS7

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There are two main types of DAC firmware.

One is firmware related to USB connection, which rewrites the control program in the XMOS chip. This update of Ver1.08 is an update of this part, and users can do it using a PC.

The other is the firmware of the controller called MCU. The MCU is a small one-chip PC and is in charge of controlling the DAC.
A special tool is required to update this firmware, and it must be returned to the factory. Unfortunately, the user cannot update this firmware.
Please read #687

Damnit all! Now I'm going to have to get a d50s locally and send the e30 back. All this waiting for nothing. I don't even have it yet.

There's a nice D70 on a second-hand website here that I've been looking at.... It's almost 4 times the price, though. Sigh... I have to think about this one.
 
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somebodyelse

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You must have a friend with a Windows computer somewhere. It is just a one time thing. 90% of the world is using Windows. 7% of the world is using MAC. So the odds are very big you know someone with a Windows laptop you can use for 2 minutes.
It's a one time thing...until the next time, and the one after that... plus in the current environment it's easier said than done. Avoiding that arsing about has a value which may swing a purchasing decision.
 

ta240

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Just add one of these after it: https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/prea...ve-6j1-stereo-preamplifier-black-p-10995.html It will invert the signal again ;)

Or if you don't want that sweet sweet tube sound ;) Use L-4E6S microphone cable for your interconnect and only ground the shield on one side and use both blues for center and both whites for outside on the source side and both blues for outside and both whites for center on the destination side. Ohh, maybe there is a market for that; I could make inverting interconnects.
temp.jpg
 
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mykeldg

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Damnit all! Now I'm going to have to get a d50s locally and send the e30 back. All this waiting for nothing. I don't even have it yet.

There's a nice D70 on a second-hand website here that I've been looking at.... It's almost 4 times the price, though. Sigh... I have to think about this one.
Also all the subjective positive youtube review of the e30 saying it has more details and wider sound stage than the d50s is probably because of the inverted polarity. I can confirm this, its noticeably fuller sounding now on USB.(which is great but now I have to live with a thinner sounding optical/coax interface)
 
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NgxHS7

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Just add one of these after it: https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/prea...ve-6j1-stereo-preamplifier-black-p-10995.html It will invert the signal again ;)

Or if you don't want that sweet sweet tube sound ;) Use L-4E6S microphone cable for your interconnect and only ground the shield on one side and switch which color wires go to ground on each end.

I was hoping to just use this as a preamp to my actives and be done with it. This was going to be great because it comes with a remote! While a tube amp sounds interesting, without a remote, it's not something I can justify(it's for TV/MOVIE watching) and music listening.... Perhaps I am taking this all too seriously. For my needs, it's going to be fine. When I want to listen to music, I have to USB connect to my PC anyway. And the preamp option probably doesn't sound anywhere near as good as just using this as a DAC.
 

AndyLu

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It's a one time thing...until the next time, and the one after that... plus in the current environment it's easier said than done. Avoiding that arsing about has a value which may swing a purchasing decision.

We are talking firmware here. A firmware update happens once or twice. If Windows computers where nowhere to be found you had a point. But we are talking a 2 minute action here on machines easily obtainable all around you. Most brands of DACS I know only deliver their firmware updates on Windows. So is that a reason not to buy any DAC at all? And, as already said, you partly have to blame Apple for that too, because they don't make it exactly easy for a manufacturer.

BTW Topping has provided a fix for this phase inverted issue very quickly within 1 or 2 days. You could compliment them for that (and for listening to their customers) instead of complaining. It will take you 2 minutes to apply this fix.
I had a much more expensive Pro-ject DAC. It took them half a year to fix something much more serious (they only provided an installer for Windows too).
I still think you make a big deal out of nothing.
 
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JohnYang1997

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This update is a firmware update for USB connection, COAX and OPT may not have been related.
You are correct.
I tried testing USB via PC : downloading the pop test file https://studiosixdigital.com/support/downloads-2/speaker-pop-signals.zip
It shows positive.

But if I use Optical it still shows up as negative (using bluetooth receiver with optical out). FYI, I also tested before flashing and it was already negative via optical

One thing i have not done is measure via USB prior to flashing
Since this is an update for XMOS firmware, the polarity is only re-reversed for USB input. The coax and toslink input bypass the XMOS hence the polarity is remain inverted for those two inputs. We don't consider this as an issue but an fulfill to a demand from the users. I'm doing my best helping.
 
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