Topping E30 DAC Review

[Pep2020]

I assume this is in relation to the 'absolute phase' question, and the firmware update that fixes it for USB but not optical or coax. The reviews were done before anyone spotted this, so out of the box it should sound as reviewed. As to whether it's 'right' in your system, you'd need to check whether the amp and speakers preserve absolute phase too - not all of them will.

The other question is whether or not you can hear the difference with music anyway. The archimago post metioned by @Tup3x presents it quite well with a verifiable test taht you could try for yourself. In that case at least, with synthetic test tones the difference can be reliably detected in ABX testing, but with an instrument with an asymmetric waveform (so is more likely to be detectable) the difference couldn't be reliably heard. Perhaps with some synth-heavy music it will be audible.

Yes it was related to that point. Thanks for the response.

 

[mykeldg]

Hi all,

Here is my attempt to capture the difference between old and new firmware. I tried my best to level match. Also there are no tone controls used - The Amp (Onkyo 9150) is running Direct Mode in both scenarios. Speakers are Dynaudio X18.

My recording gear is nothing special -- just want to demonstrate that lossy recording + lossy youtube can atleast still partially convey the difference I am subjectively hearing.

It seems I hear it more in the mid-bass/bass region. There is more richness in tone in the Positive polarity / New firmware. While the old one is clean and clear with the perception of more detail. Again, i'm not forcing this to anyone, just sharing my observations.

 

[yejun]

I assume this is in relation to the 'absolute phase' question, and the firmware update that fixes it for USB but not optical or coax. The reviews were done before anyone spotted this, so out of the box it should sound as reviewed. As to whether it's 'right' in your system, you'd need to check whether the amp and speakers preserve absolute phase too - not all of them will.

The other question is whether or not you can hear the difference with music anyway. The archimago post metioned by @Tup3x presents it quite well with a verifiable test taht you could try for yourself. In that case at least, with synthetic test tones the difference can be reliably detected in ABX testing, but with an instrument with an asymmetric waveform (so is more likely to be detectable) the difference couldn't be reliably heard. Perhaps with some synth-heavy music it will be audible.

Archimago post only tested on headphone. One hypothesis the audible difference can be caused by Doppler effect. This most likely only affect speaker because the frequency change is a function of speed of movement.

 

[somebodyelse]

Archimago post only tested on headphone. One hypothesis the audible difference can be caused by Doppler effect. This most likely only affect speaker because the frequency change is a function of speed of movement.

Could be - try the ABX for yourself on speakers too. If you can reliably hear the difference then it might be worth checking your whole system. If not then there's nothing to worry about.

 

[fosi]

Hi all,

Here is my attempt to capture the difference between old and new firmware. I tried my best to level match. Also there are no tone controls used - The Amp (Onkyo 9150) is running Direct Mode in both scenarios. Speakers are Dynaudio X18.

My recording gear is nothing special -- just want to demonstrate that lossy recording + lossy youtube can atleast still partially convey the difference I am subjectively hearing.

It seems I hear it more in the mid-bass/bass region. There is more richness in tone in the Positive polarity / New firmware. While the old one is clean and clear with the perception of more detail. Again, i'm not forcing this to anyone, just sharing my observations.

I suppose you used usb. Also the differences could be more noticeable if you put a few seconds off each test side by side instead of running them on a longer period of time.

 

[mykeldg]

I suppose you used usb. Also the differences could be more noticeable if you put a few seconds off each test side by side instead of running them on a longer period of time.

yes USB on both. the firmware update does not affect optical/coax (to my dismay).

 

[odyo]

Hello, new member here. Has anyone bought the E30 from Shenzhenaudio? I ordered and paid on May 13, 2020 but nothing is happening. My order still says unfulfilled. Are they out of stock? or is it to do with E30 issues that have been coming up that I have seen in this forum. I know they say 1 to 3 business days for quality control but it is past that. I sent an email yesterday about my order but have not received a response yet.

I think they don't have it in stock and they don't say it to the customer. I was expecting quick shipping but waited 2 weeks and cancelled after that. Now waiting for the refund god knows when. Bad experience nonetheless. They should state that it's not in stock.

 

[samsa]

Changing the VID and PID alone clearly do not suffice:

$ ./E30_dfu_tool --upload currentfirmware.bin
VID = 0x152a, PID = 0x8750, BCDDevice: 0x106
Could not find/open device

Nope. I am an idiot. You need to execute this as root.

$ sudo ./E30_dfu_tool --upload currentfirmware.bin
VID = 0x152a, PID = 0x8750, BCDDevice: 0x106
E30 DFU application started - Interface 2 claimed
Detaching device from application mode.
Waiting for device to restart and enter DFU mode...
VID = 0x152a, PID = 0x8750, BCDDevice: 0x106
... DFU firmware upgrade device opened
... Uploading image (currentfirmware.bin) from device
... Returning device to application mode
$

Now I just need to work up the guts to try the "--download" option.

Ulp! Here goes:

$ sudo ./E30_dfu_tool --download E30_V108_dfu_20E.bin
VID = 0x152a, PID = 0x8750, BCDDevice: 0x106
E30 DFU application started - Interface 2 claimed
Detaching device from application mode.
Waiting for device to restart and enter DFU mode...
VID = 0x152a, PID = 0x8750, BCDDevice: 0x106
... DFU firmware upgrade device opened
... Downloading image (E30_V108_dfu_20E.bin) to device
... Download complete
... Returning device to application mode
$

Success!

This was under Linux, 'cuz my E30 is hooked up to a Raspberry Pi3B+ streamer. Should work just the same under Macos, but I make no promises.

 

[odyo]

Hi all,

Here is my attempt to capture the difference between old and new firmware. I tried my best to level match. Also there are no tone controls used - The Amp (Onkyo 9150) is running Direct Mode in both scenarios. Speakers are Dynaudio X18.

My recording gear is nothing special -- just want to demonstrate that lossy recording + lossy youtube can atleast still partially convey the difference I am subjectively hearing.

It seems I hear it more in the mid-bass/bass region. There is more richness in tone in the Positive polarity / New firmware. While the old one is clean and clear with the perception of more detail. Again, i'm not forcing this to anyone, just sharing my observations.

It's very obvious. Stock firmware is leaner.

 

[mykeldg]

Just a thought -- is it possible to flash an old firmware and just reverse the polarity of my speaker cables? Anyone knowledgeable who can confirm this in theory? I just prefer to have all inputs have the correct polarity since, atleast in my system, the improvement was beyond subtle.

 

[PyramidElectric]

Just a thought -- is it possible to flash an old firmware and just reverse the polarity of my speaker cables? Anyone knowledgeable who can confirm this in theory?

I hope so. It's pretty bad that they didn't say that the firmware update was only good for USB imo, as if you're running a sytem using a variety of the USB/Coax/Optical inputs then a "fix" is pretty complicated now.

 

[LeandroFlu]

I would love to see a comparison of the detailed measurements of the new vs the original firmware, would it be interesting, would @amirm be possible?

 

[yejun]

Just a thought -- is it possible to flash an old firmware and just reverse the polarity of my speaker cables? Anyone knowledgeable who can confirm this in theory? I just prefer to have all inputs have the correct polarity since, atleast in my system, the improvement was beyond subtle.

For normal speaker, it is usually safe to reverse polarity. The only exception is speaker connect both left and right channel and require a common ground.

 

[NgxHS7]

Just a thought -- is it possible to flash an old firmware and just reverse the polarity of my speaker cables? Anyone knowledgeable who can confirm this in theory? I just prefer to have all inputs have the correct polarity since, atleast in my system, the improvement was beyond subtle.

I can't even do this because my speakers are active. I'd have to take the drivers out and switch polarity inside the speaker.

 

[mykeldg]

@topping @JohnYang1997 how can I roll-back to the previous firmware? I guess I'll just reverse my speaker cables. I hope you can share a link of previous firmware. Thanks in advance

 

[samsa]

I hope you can share a link of previous firmware.

He already shared version 1.07. (Look up-thread.) It's also available for download at the Topping website.

how can I roll-back to the previous firmware?

You can either

1. Do a factory-reset in the firmware update tool.
2. Flash it with the 1.07 version of the firmware.

 

[NgxHS7]

Just a thought -- is it possible to flash an old firmware and just reverse the polarity of my speaker cables? Anyone knowledgeable who can confirm this in theory? I just prefer to have all inputs have the correct polarity since, atleast in my system, the improvement was beyond subtle.

This means you'll have to reverse them when other dacs are used, so be sure to remember that.

 

[mykeldg]

thanks! found it. Has anyone been able to flash an older firmware over a new one? (could not find factory reset from the tool) Im just cautious of bricking it.

 

[NgxHS7]

thanks! found it. Has anyone been able to flash an older firmware over a new one? (could not find factory reset from the tool) Im just cautious of bricking it.

Before you roll back the firmware, why don't you just use optical input and reverse your speaker cable connection to see if that makes a difference in sound? Or have you done this already?

 

[samsa]

Or you could do it in software. Dunno what music software you use, but any program with even the most rudimentary DSP capability will allow you to invert a PCM signal.