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Topping E30 DAC Review

Pdxwayne

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Hi guys,

I received my L30 and E30 stack today and I ran into the following issues:

1) Whenever I change songs on Tidal, the window slider volume will change with the songs and it varies from songs to songs
2) I will get this error on Youtube "Audio renderer error. Please restart your computer" whenever I paused Tidal and play any video on Youtube.
  • If I manage to get the youtube video to play, there would be no audio. I would have to manually change the playback device to the from "REALTEK DIGITAL OUTPUT" to "TOPPING USB DAC" before I can get any audio.
When I try to change the volume manually from the volume slider, it will jump back to the "default" volume the song is being played at.
The E30 is connected via USB to my PC. (Windows 10)
The E30 is in DAC mode
I have enabled exclusive mode on Tidal
I have installed the latest E30 driver

Could it be the sample/bit rate difference of Youtube and Tidal?

Any inputs/solutions would be greatly appreciated. This is my first time using an AMP/DAC setup.

Thank you!
I have encountered similar issue with Tidal app on Windows 10. I believe the issue is specific to Tidal app on Windows with E30. Each time a new song is played, E30 master volume in Windows 10 Sound setting would auto adjust to a number from whatever I manually set previously. Edit: the change of volume seems to correspondence to songs' resolution.

I don't have such issue with Gustard x16. So strange that it only happens to E30.

I don't have a solution for that. Workaround is set the L30 volume louder or softer based on the songs.

Regarding YouTube issue, as long as in Wondows sound setting E30 is selected, I could play YouTube via Firefox no problem, after paused Tidal.
 
Last edited:

shamus

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I have encountered similar issue with Tidal app on Windows 10. I believe the issue is specific to Tidal app on Windows with E30. Each time a new song is played, E30 master volume in Windows 10 Sound setting would auto adjust to a number from whatever I manually set previously. Edit: the change of volume seems to correspondence to songs' resolution.

I don't have such issue with Gustard x16. So strange that it only happens to E30.

I don't have a solution for that. Workaround is set the L30 volume louder or softer based on the songs.

Regarding YouTube issue, as long as in Wondows sound setting E30 is selected, I could play YouTube via Firefox no problem, after paused Tidal.
Thank you for your reply. I suspected it seems to be a problem with Tidal and the bitrate.

While playing a song is playing on Tidal, I started a Youtube video and I would get "Audio renderer error. Please restart your computer",
however when I tested with Spotify, the youtube video is able to be played..
 

Pdxwayne

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Thank you for your reply. I suspected it seems to be a problem with Tidal and the bitrate.

While playing a song is playing on Tidal, I started a Youtube video and I would get "Audio renderer error. Please restart your computer",
however when I tested with Spotify, the youtube video is able to be played..
For me, I don't have such error message. YouTube would play, but no sound. Once I paused Tidal and select a new song in YouTube, I would get sound with YouTube video.
 

companyja

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Hi guys,

I received my L30 and E30 stack today and I ran into the following issues:

1) Whenever I change songs on Tidal, the window slider volume will change with the songs and it varies from songs to songs
2) I will get this error on Youtube "Audio renderer error. Please restart your computer" whenever I paused Tidal and play any video on Youtube.
  • If I manage to get the youtube video to play, there would be no audio. I would have to manually change the playback device to the from "REALTEK DIGITAL OUTPUT" to "TOPPING USB DAC" before I can get any audio.
When I try to change the volume manually from the volume slider, it will jump back to the "default" volume the song is being played at.
The E30 is connected via USB to my PC. (Windows 10)
The E30 is in DAC mode
I have enabled exclusive mode on Tidal
I have installed the latest E30 driver

Could it be the sample/bit rate difference of Youtube and Tidal?

Any inputs/solutions would be greatly appreciated. This is my first time using an AMP/DAC setup.

Thank you!
It's most definitely the sample rate difference. Exclusive mode on Tidal will lock you into 44.1 (presumably), Youtube content is in 48khz. This has nothing to do with the E30, that's just how exclusive audio works. The fix is to stop using exclusive audio or stop watching youtube while Tidal is on, there is no magical solution that allows you to use a DAC the way you intended.

If the audio level changes between a player in exclusive mode and youtube videos, it means you have your volume in windows set to lower than 100% via either the taskbar or a preamp such as EQ APO, and ASIO/WASAPI doesn't react to windows volume control. Again, no magic fix for this, I suggest not using exclusive mode and applying a small negative preamp in EQ APO to avoid Windows' limiter.
 

Jose Hidalgo

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Quick questions guys :
  • What is the latest firmware (firmware, not driver) version for E30 ? On Topping site I only see 1.08 for SN up to 2003.
  • How can I check my firmware version via Windows ?
Thanks.
 

Pdxwayne

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Quick questions guys :
  • What is the latest firmware (firmware, not driver) version for E30 ? On Topping site I only see 1.08 for SN up to 2003.
  • How can I check my firmware version via Windows ?
Thanks.
I searched before and there is no new firmware available for newer SN.

To see your firmware version, you would need to go through the steps for old 2003 E30 by installing the USB driver and the app to install firmware. Once you do that, the app to install firmware (don't try to install firmware, just open the app)would show you your firmware version. After that, you should remove the USB driver for 2003 E30, else it would cause strange issue.

My SN starts with 2009 and it also have version 1.08.
 

shamus

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It's most definitely the sample rate difference. Exclusive mode on Tidal will lock you into 44.1 (presumably), Youtube content is in 48khz. This has nothing to do with the E30, that's just how exclusive audio works. The fix is to stop using exclusive audio or stop watching youtube while Tidal is on, there is no magical solution that allows you to use a DAC the way you intended.

If the audio level changes between a player in exclusive mode and youtube videos, it means you have your volume in windows set to lower than 100% via either the taskbar or a preamp such as EQ APO, and ASIO/WASAPI doesn't react to windows volume control. Again, no magic fix for this, I suggest not using exclusive mode and applying a small negative preamp in EQ APO to avoid Windows' limiter.
Thank you for your input.

Could you please explain how to do I apply this "applying a small negative preamp in EQ APO to avoid Windows' limiter." ?

Do I have to switch the E30 to "Preamp" mode and use the controller to lower the volume to -98.0?
 

companyja

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Thank you for your input.

Could you please explain how to do I apply this "applying a small negative preamp in EQ APO to avoid Windows' limiter." ?

Do I have to switch the E30 to "Preamp" mode and use the controller to lower the volume to -98.0?
I am not sure if setting a negative preamp in the E30 will affect the levels that Windows sees. My intuition says no but I can't be sure.

What you want to do is make sure that Windows is not sending a full-scale signal. If Windows 10 detects that you are peaking at 0dB and the volume is set at 100%, it will engage CAudioLimiter which will lower the amplitude to -0.12dB momentarily. This also puts a bit of distortion out and has a ducking effect, although if you're just playing music and nothing else, you probably won't be able to hear it as it's just a momentary thing. But since we want good, accurate audio, we can just apply a preamp of -0.2dB or more, and that way Windows will never see a full-scale peak and never engage the limiter.

You can put the volume in Windows to 97% or less, which is the easiest fix - if you're OCD like I am, you can install EQ APO (pretty easy, also uncheck "Use Original APO" under "Troubleshooting Options" when installing for extra peace-of-mind if the option is available), turn off all the default presets in the Editor and just use the "Preamp" option. You can put it at any value you want, I have it running at -4dB for some extra security against intersample peaks (another one of those modern mastering artifacts), but -0.2dB is enough to avoid the limiter. Keep in mind that doing this lowers the dynamic range. Since you're starting from 32bit or 24bit, the -0.2dB won't affect anything, neither will 4dB really, you can set it to whatever you prefer. As long as this preamp works, then Windows will not see a full-scale peak at 0dB as the maximum available signal, even if you keep it at 100% in Windows, will then be -0.2 dB (intersample peaks nonwithstanding, but this is a process that happens inside your DAC, Windows will not interpret them as above -0.2dB).

I'm basically copy-pasting the advice from this thread, it's more detailed there if you need more info!
 
Last edited:

shamus

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I am not sure if setting a negative preamp in the E30 will affect the levels that Windows sees. My intuition says no but I can't be sure.

What you want to do is make sure that Windows is not sending a full-scale signal. If Windows 10 detects that you are peaking at 0dB and the volume is set at 100%, it will engage CAudioLimiter which will lower the amplitude to -0.12dB momentarily. This also puts a bit of distortion out and has a ducking effect, although if you're just playing music and nothing else, you probably won't be able to hear it as it's just a momentary thing. But since we want good, accurate audio, we can just apply a preamp of -0.2dB or more, and that way Windows will never see a full-scale peak and never engage the limiter.

You can put the volume in Windows to 97% or less, which is the easiest fix - if you're OCD like I am, you can install EQ APO (pretty easy, also uncheck "Use Original APO" under "Troubleshooting Options" when installing for extra peace-of-mind if the option is available), turn off all the default presets in the Editor and just use the "Preamp" option. You can put it at any value you want, I have it running at -4dB for some extra security against intersample peaks (another one of those modern mastering artifacts), but -0.2dB is enough to avoid the limiter. Keep in mind that doing this lowers the dynamic range. Since you're starting from 32bit or 24bit, the -0.2dB won't affect anything, neither will 4dB really, you can set it to whatever you prefer. As long as this preamp works, then Windows will not see a full-scale peak at 0dB as the maximum available signal, even if you keep it at 100% in Windows, will then be -0.2 dB (intersample peaks nonwithstanding, but this is a process that happens inside your DAC, Windows will not interpret them as above -0.2dB).

I'm basically copy-pasting the advice from this thread, it's more detailed there if you need more info!
Thank you so much! I will take a look at the thread.
 

MrPeanuts

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Anyone downside to just using the E30 without an amp? I have bought a E30+L30 stack but a new L30 ESD version is now shipped from China. I connected my 250 ohm headphones to E30 and it seems to work OK. If there's no upside, I might try to sell the L30.
 

Robbo99999

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Anyone downside to just using the E30 without an amp? I have bought a E30+L30 stack but a new L30 ESD version is now shipped from China. I connected my 250 ohm headphones to E30 and it seems to work OK. If there's no upside, I might try to sell the L30.
It might just mean that the output impedance is not optimal (probably too high), which could effect the frequency response of your headphone.....but I'll let others answer too if there are other downsides.
 
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It might just mean that the output impedance is not optimal (probably too high), which could effect the frequency response of your headphone.....but I'll let others answer too if there are other downsides.
i ran this while waiting for the L30 to be released, i thought it sounded (subjectively) pretty bad. iirc everything was really boomy.
 
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Hi - I have been lurking about for the last year or more and found a lot of interesting content. I had a need for a streaming and airplay solution so I purchased a raspberry pi 4, Topping E30, and the Adam t5v speakers hoping to use the preamp feature of the E30. I was testing the configuration out for the last few days and other than some random clicks it was working quite well. I ordered a power strip so that I can plug everything using one ground hoping that would solve the clicking issue.

All of a sudden today the speakers started to hum. It happened as landscapers the house over were using large mowers. Not sure if this induced any noise into the electrical system although my cable box seemed to have rebooted. Has anyone experienced this behavior before? It is running in pre-amp mode with usb in from the RPI 4. I did a bit of swapping and:
- interconnects swapped issue didn't change
- usb swapped, no change
- dac swapped (I currently use a Moon 200 dac although not as a preamp) and the issue went away.
- I swapped the E30 into my existing system with amps and passive speakers and it worked fine in both preamp and dac mode. The coax also worked fine.
- Swapped it back and humming ensued.

Reaching out to replace the unit but I was wondering of others had a similar issue? I searched the site but nothing similar.
 

Robbo99999

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Hi - I have been lurking about for the last year or more and found a lot of interesting content. I had a need for a streaming and airplay solution so I purchased a raspberry pi 4, Topping E30, and the Adam t5v speakers hoping to use the preamp feature of the E30. I was testing the configuration out for the last few days and other than some random clicks it was working quite well. I ordered a power strip so that I can plug everything using one ground hoping that would solve the clicking issue.

All of a sudden today the speakers started to hum. It happened as landscapers the house over were using large mowers. Not sure if this induced any noise into the electrical system although my cable box seemed to have rebooted. Has anyone experienced this behavior before? It is running in pre-amp mode with usb in from the RPI 4. I did a bit of swapping and:
- interconnects swapped issue didn't change
- usb swapped, no change
- dac swapped (I currently use a Moon 200 dac although not as a preamp) and the issue went away.
- I swapped the E30 into my existing system with amps and passive speakers and it worked fine in both preamp and dac mode. The coax also worked fine.
- Swapped it back and humming ensued.

Reaching out to replace the unit but I was wondering of others had a similar issue? I searched the site but nothing similar.
I had hum issues with my active speakers when I first installed them....I have my JBL 308p active speakers attached to both my TV and also (via a manual switch) to my laptop. In the end I managed to work out that the hum issues were coming from two separate sources, one was my TV aerial and the other was because my equipment was hooked up to more than one electrical outlet.....but the hum caused by the TV aerial was the most significant factor. I solved the TV aerial problem by buying this for a couple of quid on Amazon (https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002MQET2A), and I solved the last & small remaining part of the hum by connecting everything to just one electrical outlet. Hopefully some of that info will be useful for your situation.
 
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I had hum issues with my active speakers when I first installed them....I have my JBL 308p active speakers attached to both my TV and also (via a manual switch) to my laptop. In the end I managed to work out that the hum issues were coming from two separate sources, one was my TV aerial and the other was because my equipment was hooked up to more than one electrical outlet.....but the hum caused by the TV aerial was the most significant factor. I solved the TV aerial problem by buying this for a couple of quid on Amazon (https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002MQET2A), and I solved the last & small remaining part of the hum by connecting everything to just one electrical outlet. Hopefully some of that info will be useful for your situation.

Thanks for the response. I am not sure what is going on.
Today I decided to do more testing but when I turned the speakers back on the hum is no longer there.
I am just wondering if there was a ground loop that was induced during the day yesterday but somehow changed or dissipated overnight.

I am going to use the same outlet for the powerstrip but I ordered a new one that has more room between the outlets so I can plug in the wall warts with enough space for the other components. The power supply from the raspberry pi and the topping E30 are relatively large and prevent plugging in more than 3 devices. I thought that maybe the hdmi cable from the TV that the pi is also hooked up to could be a culprit. Hard to test now that the hum disappeared. I wonder if there is a way to test what caused the issue by inducing a ground loop. Not sure how I would do something like that since I am not an electrical engineer. It is unsatisfying not to understand which component caused the issue.
 

threni

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Thanks for the response. I am not sure what is going on.
Today I decided to do more testing but when I turned the speakers back on the hum is no longer there.
I am just wondering if there was a ground loop that was induced during the day yesterday but somehow changed or dissipated overnight.

I am going to use the same outlet for the powerstrip but I ordered a new one that has more room between the outlets so I can plug in the wall warts with enough space for the other components. The power supply from the raspberry pi and the topping E30 are relatively large and prevent plugging in more than 3 devices. I thought that maybe the hdmi cable from the TV that the pi is also hooked up to could be a culprit. Hard to test now that the hum disappeared. I wonder if there is a way to test what caused the issue by inducing a ground loop. Not sure how I would do something like that since I am not an electrical engineer. It is unsatisfying not to understand which component caused the issue.
As a developer let me just state that "bugs don't just go away"!
 

Robbo99999

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Thanks for the response. I am not sure what is going on.
Today I decided to do more testing but when I turned the speakers back on the hum is no longer there.
I am just wondering if there was a ground loop that was induced during the day yesterday but somehow changed or dissipated overnight.

I am going to use the same outlet for the powerstrip but I ordered a new one that has more room between the outlets so I can plug in the wall warts with enough space for the other components. The power supply from the raspberry pi and the topping E30 are relatively large and prevent plugging in more than 3 devices. I thought that maybe the hdmi cable from the TV that the pi is also hooked up to could be a culprit. Hard to test now that the hum disappeared. I wonder if there is a way to test what caused the issue by inducing a ground loop. Not sure how I would do something like that since I am not an electrical engineer. It is unsatisfying not to understand which component caused the issue.
Yeah, sure, maybe it is coming from the TV....my hum issue was coming via the TV from the TV aerial for instance. You could always try unhooking it from the TV to see if the problem goes away, although you say you don't have the problem today so you won't be able to diagnose that. Perhaps next time you get hum then try unplugging it from the TV.
 

threni

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Hah - I am also a developer, but perhaps the particular condition won't come back for some time. Hopefully I don't run into the "bug" again if I change some of the states.
I was going to type up a long joke and get it all wrong but luckily a little googling and I found a pretty good version of it:
---
A Software Engineer, a Hardware Engineer and a Departmental Manager were on their way to a meeting. They were driving down a steep mountain road when suddenly the brakes on their car failed. The car careened almost out of control down the road, bouncing off the crash barriers, until it miraculously ground to a halt scraping along the mountainside. The car's occupants, shaken but unhurt, now had a problem: they were stuck halfway down a mountain in a car with no brakes. What were they to do?

"I know," said the Departmental Manager, "Let's have a meeting, propose a Vision, formulate a Mission Statement, define some Goals, and by a process of Continuous Improvement find a solution to the Critical Problems, and we can be on our way."

"No, no," said the Hardware Engineer, "That will take far too long, and besides, that method has never worked before. I've got my Swiss Army knife with me, and in no time at all I can strip down the car's braking system, isolate the fault, fix it, and we can be on our way."

"Well," said the Software Engineer, "Before we do anything, I think we should push the car back up the road and see if it happens again."
 
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