Topping E30 DAC Review

[Robin L]

Wait did you say more distortion on the THX? That can't be right? Are you saying the sound from the L30 is cleaner than the sound from the THXs?

The distortion level of the Topping L30 is very close to the distortion of the analyzer that Amrim uses:

This graph displays the difference between the THX and L30:

The Topping unit has 10db less noise and distortion than the THX. When I read the review of the L30, I knew I had to get one, in spite of having a perfectly serviceable Schiit Magni 3. The audible difference is small, but at the same time it's there. Mind you, I'm not sure that I'd hear the difference in the DBT, but nonetheless I'm glad to get the Topping pair of the E30 and L30. Hopefully Topping will make a single box version of the same, with built in power supplies and a single, standard, power cord.

 

[AudioSonic]

Well the measurements are measurements but these are beyond the ability of human hearing to discern the difference and THAT has been empirically proven. I think people who talk on these forums about hearing difference that make them superhuman are coming into listening to these with preconceived perceptions or coming off some placebo effect making them hear things they are actually not. To me personally I think the THX's sound far better compared to the L30s. Possibly because the THX's feed more power? But well I guess it's a preference thing.

 

[Robin L]

Well the measurements are measurements but these are beyond the ability of human hearing to discern the difference right? So why do they matter? To me personally I think the THX's sound far better compared to the L30s, honestly.

I seriously doubt a DBT would give the same results.

 

[AudioSonic]

I seriously doubt a DBT would give the same results.

lol and I seriously doubt you or anyone else can hear that difference.

ah well what can I say? I guess the L30s and E30s is the new "hype train" of the month club.

 

[ngs428]

Anyone have any other info on this? Looks like the fire at AKM may have an impact on the availability of the chip used in the E30.

https://www.prosoundnetwork.com/business/akm-factory-fire-shakes-up-pro-audio-industry

 

[frogmeat69]

The Monoprice has balanced input and headphone out, the L30 has a pre amp function, both are great choices, depending on what you need or want.
And the E30 would be a great DAC for either, and also a good match for the SMSL SP200, that amp, to me at least was better matched with SE DACs with 2v output, just too hot for a lot of headphones running a typical balanced setup, couldn't turn up the volume much at all before it was just too loud for normal listening. Great for my HE6se, but not my Focal Clear.

 

[AudioSonic]

I am thinking of updating the sp200 I have with a topping A90, since I already have the topping D90. Anyone know if I will actually hear any differences in sound between those 2 or if its even worth it to "upgrade"? I will be listening with the Focal Elegia. Thanks in advance.

 

[Robin L]

lol and I seriously doubt you or anyone else can hear that difference.

ah well what can I say? I guess the L30s and E30s is the new "hype train" of the month club.

Hype train or no, the measured performance of the L30 is amazing. And, as far as I can tell, ASR is measurements oriented. Not hype, just data.

 

[AudioSonic]

Hype train or no, the measured performance of the L30 is amazing. And, as far as I can tell, ASR is measurements oriented. Not hype, just data.

I agree with the statement about the measurements. Not contesting that at all but its measurements that really have nothing to do with AUDIABILITY or HEARING? Last I checked this site is still interested in what people HEAR from their equipment not just measurements.

 

[Jimbob54]

Well the measurements are measurements but these are beyond the ability of human hearing to discern the difference and THAT has been empirically proven. I think people who talk on these forums about hearing difference that make them superhuman are coming into listening to these with preconceived perceptions or coming off some placebo effect making them hear things they are actually not. To me personally I think the THX's sound far better compared to the L30s. Possibly because the THX's feed more power? But well I guess it's a preference thing.

You've lost me there. The differences between the amps are beyond human hearing to discern? Agreed.

But then you say you can tell them apart and the thx sound better?

But then you say people here wouldn't be able to tell them apart?

What?

 

[Robin L]

I agree with the statement about the measurements. Not contesting that at all but its measurements that really have nothing to do with AUDIABILITY or HEARING? Last I checked this site is still interested in what people HEAR from their equipment not just measurements.

I haven't been here all that long, but as far as I can tell, this forum is more about what can be verified than subjective impressions. Thus all these folks insisting on DBT. ASR is apparently supposed to be an antidote to audio subjectivism. The folks most insistent on DBT seem to be the folks with the most technical background and experience. By all means pursue your audio dreams. Just don't expect conformation.

 

[AudioSonic]

You've lost me there. The differences between the amps are beyond human hearing to discern? Agreed.

But then you say you can tell them apart and the thx sound better?

But then you say people here wouldn't be able to tell them apart?

What?

Well let me clarify. When I said the THX sound better I wasn't talking about the measured distortion but the tonality / sound signature. As I alluded to, the THX feed more power that affects the sound and that to me sounds better overall than the L30s.

Also where did I say that people couldn't tell the sound apart between L30s and THXs? I mean I thought I clearly showed/stated the opposite assumption here? That there IS a clear difference between them.

Hope that clears the confusion.

 

[AudioSonic]

I haven't been here all that long, but as far as I can tell, this forum is more about what can be verified than subjective impressions. Thus all these folks insisting on DBT. It's apparently supposed to be an antidote to subjectivism. The folks most insistent on DBT seem to be the folks with the most technical background and experience. By all means pursue your audio dreams. Just don't expect conformation.

But how are measurements that are beyond the ability to be discerned by the human ear actually objective or an antidote for subjectivism? I mean there is no basis to be subjective in the first place WHEN YOU CAN'T HEAR IT yes? Not sure if your making a lot of sense there.

BTW for those "others" we are talking about the distortion levels here which are beyond the ability of human hearing to detect at the measured levels.

 

[Robin L]

But how are measurements that are beyond the ability to be discerned by the human ear actually objective or an antidote for subjectivism? I mean there is no basis to be subjective in the first place WHEN YOU CAN'T HEAR IT yes? Not sure if your making a lot of sense there.

The things that can be heard can be measured. If there is a tonal difference, most likely there will be a difference in frequency response or available power. One of things I've read on this forum is that there are limits to the differences we can discern. Another is that there is a definite bias implicit in sighted listening. Hypothetical example: I am looking at my Stax SRM T1 amp/energizer, it's size, weight, it's build. JFET driver to direct-coupled triodes. Expensive in 1988 at $1200 for a headphone amp. Has to be better, I know what my ears tell me.

But I don't. Amirm recently measured a number of these amp/energizers, found they have audible distortion, well past the threshold of hearing. Now I am listening to much cheaper gear that is all solid state into headphones of a more conventional design, hearing tonal qualities that seem [in my audio memory] very similar to what I was hearing with the Stax gear, but with obviously different measured performance. Without DBT, our hearing can't be trusted.

 

[AudioSonic]

In any case I didn't want to get into a pissing match here. Just that I don't think the flavor of the month amplifier should necessarily be touted as "best" or "better" on measurements that plays no part in the hearing process.

I mean I did buy the E30s to replace the D30 that I have at another room after all. But I will not be buying the L30s to replace my THXs, ever.
Although if someone here has replaced their THX + D90 combo with a A90 + D90 combo and can say there was a noticeable improvement, I'd like to hear your impressions.

thanks and cheers.

 

[Jimbob54]

Well let me clarify. When I said the THX sound better I wasn't talking about the measured distortion but the tonality / sound signature. As I alluded to, the THX feed more power that affects the sound and that to me sounds better overall than the L30s.

Also where did I say that people couldn't tell the sound apart between L30s and THXs? I mean I thought I clearly showed/stated the opposite assumption here? That there IS a clear difference between them.

Hope that clears the confusion.

"When I said the THX sound better I wasn't talking about the measured distortion but the tonality / sound signature" It. Doesnt. Have.One

"As I alluded to, the THX feed more power that affects the sound and that to me sounds better overall than the L30s." Not if the volume out of your headphones is measured to be the same level from both amps. If there is even a slight volume difference it will change your whole perception of the sound and the comparison.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

Well let me clarify. When I said the THX sound better I wasn't talking about the measured distortion but the tonality / sound signature.

Oh, you mean like... tubes.

 

[Jimbob54]

In any case I didn't want to get into a pissing match here. Just that I don't think the flavor of the month amplifier should necessarily be touted as "best" or "better" on measurements that plays no part in the hearing process.

Correct , we dont "hear" the measurements of an amp. Or a DAC. We hear the signals they output through transducers. But when an amp is "clean" it means it has good measurements and passes the signal on amplified but otherwise hardly changed from the source "Bad" measurements might very well be audible.

 

[AudioSonic]

Oh, you mean like... tubes.

well yes I do have a schiit freya tube amp in my main room but the tonality is much more subtle in the THX amps compared to L30s. There IS a sound signature difference between the two.

 

[AudioSonic]

Correct , we dont "hear" the measurements of an amp. Or a DAC. We hear the signals they output through transducers. But when an amp is "clean" it means it has good measurements and passes the signal on amplified but otherwise hardly changed from the source "Bad" measurements might very well be audible.

Actually I disagree here. I understand the role of the DAC to pass the original sound signature as accurately as possible to the amplifier <- but the Amplifier can modify that sound to be warmer/colder or even livelier depending on taste/construction/power source/etc. Now I am saying that difference does exist in the THX vs the L30s and I much prefer the THX because IT IS being fed by more power. Perhaps its also influenced by the headphones I am using which are the Elegia's but for the setup I have, the L30s will never be an option.