Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[zhgutov]

Right now I have an X26 Pro (Black) and a D90LE (Silver) at the same price.
I have an A90D in silver so I was trying to figure out if I should even consider the X26 Pro if I can't hear the difference between the two.
Based on my readings/searchings, one can't be different than the other in an audible sense correct?
From what I understand and speculate, the people saying X sounds better than Y is due to an imbalance of dB when flipping between X and Y where our ears perceive an acoustic property change. For example, If I want to feel a specific slam on a note or "clearer" I'd raise my volume knob a bit.
I understand that EQ is doing the same thing but that would be processed through the entire track rather than when I volume DJ, it is only for those increments of dB.

EDIT:
I'd ideally like to stick with the same colour theme, ergo the X26 Pro vs D90 situation.
This stemmed from people raving about R2R dacs and the May/Spring vs other DAC's.

I know R2R can sound different (I assume with my limited knowledge) is due to the slight distortion it may bring to the table?
In theory, the Holo May, the cleanest R2R DAC should sound similar to the D90LE (Or whatever is the best measuring DAC out there) right? or am I misunderstanding?

I like this video: Holo May review
Have fun watching it

Personally, I decided to buy D90SE because it is perfectly consistent in terms of jitter across all inputs, and it nearly perfect in all other aspects of measurements.
I think this is quiet an achievement by its developer, especially in the attention to detail.
That's why I like it.

 

[Nooborghini]

I like this video: Holo May review
Have fun watching it

Personally, I decided to buy D90SE because it is perfectly consistent in terms of jitter across all inputs, and it nearly perfect in all other aspects of measurements.
I think this is quiet an achievement by its developer, especially in the attention to detail.
That's why I like it.

Appreciate the response!

Yeah, that's what I was expecting, recently was starting to wonder if I was misinformed because so many people/posts pop up that DAC sounds different.
Maybe I'll have to get both and do A/B at the same dB level.

 

[linger63]

The Gustard is about 60% more expensive so I guess that is one reason to chose the D90SE. Any claims that the Gustard sounds any different then D90SE is just BS, assuming same filters where chosen.

They don't have the same filters.

Gustard X26 Pro

1. PCM Filter: 3 positions: Vivid, Gentle or Composite. Gustard bypassed the stock ESS filters and developed their own with the help of a hardware DSP by Analog Devices. Gentle will have a slight roll-off in the treble, Vivid will be more extended in the treble and Composite seems to work as a combination of the two.
2. DSD Filter: has 4 positions, 47K, 50K, 60K and 70K. You are selecting the cut-off frequency for DSD files.

Topping D90SE

The Topping D90SE offers 7 digital reconstruction filters with very different properties. These filter options are built into the ESS DAC chips.

 

[zhgutov]

They don't have the same filters.

Gustard X26 Pro

1. PCM Filter: 3 positions: Vivid, Gentle or Composite. Gustard bypassed the stock ESS filters and developed their own with the help of a hardware DSP by Analog Devices. Gentle will have a slight roll-off in the treble, Vivid will be more extended in the treble and Composite seems to work as a combination of the two.
2. DSD Filter: has 4 positions, 47K, 50K, 60K and 70K. You are selecting the cut-off frequency for DSD files.

Topping D90SE

The Topping D90SE offers 7 digital reconstruction filters with very different properties. These filter options are built into the ESS DAC chips.

As I can see both DACs have linear phase fast roll off filters with very similar properties (vivid and filter 5).
Both have not enough attenuation before the Nyquist frequency (at least if you compare them with something like SoX).

Maybe I'll have to get both and do A/B at the same dB level.

Well, you can do some quick experiment. Try ABX the following with the foobar:
* track01
* track02

This is the track recorded from this youtube video:

I know, this is AAC from youtube, but anyway. And this one is not limited by 15 kHz for some reason.

One of these tracks is the "original" digital recording.
Another track is passed through Topping D90SE (-10 dB preamp, filter 5), Topping A90D (volume 99 low gain) and Lake People ADC RS04.
Can you pass the ABX comparision?

P.S. I think this cannot be used to estimate the difference in digital filters, at least because the tracks are 44.1 kHz.

 

[staticV3]

I know, this is AAC from youtube, but anyway

It's Opus, not AAC:

 

[Trell]

As I can see both DACs have linear phase fast roll off filters with very similar properties (vivid and filter 5).
Both have not enough attenuation before the Nyquist frequency (at least if you compare them with something like SoX).


Well, you can do some quick experiment. Try ABX the following with the foobar:
* track01
* track02

This is the track recorded from this youtube video:

I know, this is AAC from youtube, but anyway. And this one is not limited by 15 kHz for some reason.

One of these tracks is the "original" digital recording.
Another track is passed through Topping D90SE (-10 dB preamp, filter 5), Topping A90D (volume 99 low gain) and Lake People ADC RS04.
Can you pass the ABX comparision?

P.S. I think this cannot be used to estimate the difference in digital filters, at least because the tracks are 44.1 kHz.

I enjoyed that Vivaldi track.

I do wish I could hear anything above 15 kHz at all.

 

[Gggggas]

Hello mates ,

I sent an email yesterday to Topping asking if they are preparing an upcoming DAC with the AKM 4499EX chipset and I received this reply:

"I am glad to have your mail.

We are considering this possibility. Please stay tuned.

Best Regards!"

So from what I understand they may already be working on an upcoming DAC with this chipset that is being praised by reviewers on the Gustard A26.

 

[MadMaxx]

Hello mates ,

I sent an email yesterday to Topping asking if they are preparing an upcoming DAC with the AKM 4499EX chipset and I received this reply:

"I am glad to have your mail.

We are considering this possibility. Please stay tuned.

Best Regards!"

So from what I understand they may already be working on an upcoming DAC with this chipset that is being praised by reviewers on the Gustard A26.

Topping already released a dac with the AKM 4499EX chipset: Topping E70 Velvet.

 

[Gggggas]

Topping already released a dac with the AKM 4499EX chipset: Topping E70 Velvet.

My bad I forgot to say that the reply they gave me was about the D90SE successor

 

[zhgutov]

Hello mates ,

I sent an email yesterday to Topping asking if they are preparing an upcoming DAC with the AKM 4499EX chipset and I received this reply:

"I am glad to have your mail.

We are considering this possibility. Please stay tuned.

Best Regards!"

So from what I understand they may already be working on an upcoming DAC with this chipset that is being praised by reviewers on the Gustard A26.

It is interesting if they will be able to achieve the same level of perfection across all measurements on any random production unit.

 

[Gggggas]

It is interesting if they will be able to achieve the same level of perfection across all measurements on any random production unit.

Yes it is really interesting! I am seriously considering to upgrade from the D90SE to the Gustard A26 and I told them that but since I have always been a Topping fan I wanted just a hint on whether they are considering using that chipset on an upcoming successor.

 

[solid12345]

It is interesting if they will be able to achieve the same level of perfection across all measurements on any random production unit.

Amir says the d90se is “more perfect than perfect” so what will it be in 1-2 years when another topping product launches, more perfect than absolute perfection?

 

[userb]

How does the new ADI-2/4 SE's measured performance compare to this?

 

[Trell]

How does the new ADI-2/4 SE's measured performance compare to this?

Here are measurements made by @pkane:

RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE - Auto-measured with Multitone

I don't know if this post is about the extremely nice, new RME ADI 2/4 Pro SE interface or about the new automated measurement capability of the Multitone app :) Most of these measurements were done automatically using a Multitone test plan (I'll share in a separate post). This new feature...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[staticV3]

How does the new ADI-2/4 SE's measured performance compare to this?

	ADI-2/4 Pro SE (XLR)	D90SE/LE (XLR)
Max output voltage	16.37V	5.25V
SINAD	116dB	127.5dB
Noise	0.869-8.69μV(A)	0.933μV(A)

 

[userb]

	ADI-2/4 Pro SE (XLR)	D90SE/LE (XLR)
Max output voltage	16.37V	5.25V
SINAD	116dB	127.5dB
Noise	0.869-8.69μV(A)	0.933μV(A)

great, thank you, very helpful!

 

[Snoopy]

Amir says the d90se is “more perfect than perfect” so what will it be in 1-2 years when another topping product launches, more perfect than absolute perfection?

Interesting would be to hear amir's thoughts about all these new perfect DACs recently released and if they do anything better than the D90SE...or if he would still choose the D90SE over one of these newer DACs (D400ES, EX, Su-10, D1SE2 etc).

It kinda is getting boring if they are all perfect anyways.

Would a SMPS be preferable to avoid 50hz/60hz humm.. has any of the DACs better parts.. easier to update the firmware etc.

Why do they still do these dual chip DACs when a single chip DAC is just as perfect?

 

[alexeyi]

Interesting would be to hear amir's thoughts about all these new perfect DACs recently released and if they do anything better than the D90SE...or if he would still choose the D90SE over one of these newer DACs (D400ES, EX, Su-10, D1SE2 etc).

It kinda is getting boring if they are all perfect anyways.

Would a SMPS be preferable to avoid 50hz/60hz humm.. has any of the DACs better parts.. easier to update the firmware etc.

Why do they still do these dual chip DACs when a single chip DAC is just as perfect?

One way to look at it, it is good to have multiple very performant DACs because of the price drop in the market. Nowadays it is easy to pick up a very capable DAC and some would argue that the bigger the pool of products, the better because then you can also choose on personal preference, form factor etc. and still get the performance.

As to why use dual chip variant, well, in my opinion is mostly marketing. Advertise the product as dual chip and get the price up based on that, even tho it is not justified. They will advertise also probably that the implementation will reduce cross-talk and.. yeah.

 

[Rottmannash]

One way to look at it, it is good to have multiple very performant DACs because of the price drop in the market. Nowadays it is easy to pick up a very capable DAC and some would argue that the bigger the pool of products, the better because then you can also choose on personal preference, form factor etc. and still get the performance.

As to why use dual chip variant, well, in my opinion is mostly marketing. Advertise the product as dual chip and get the price up based on that, even tho it is not justified. They will advertise also probably that the implementation will reduce cross-talk and.. yeah.

Someone more educated than me can chime in but I believe there is a legitimate reason to use multiple chips in parallel-more current output? Maybe it is marketing but I do believe someone can bring some clarity to this question, as it has been discussed elsewhere on this site.

 

[Sokel]

One way to look at it, it is good to have multiple very performant DACs because of the price drop in the market.

Yep,but this price benefit is meaningful if you buy one of them,if you buy three for example you have the same identical sound quality for x3 the price,like the good old days (at least those ones worked for years)