Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[Pluto]

I2S and AES are not very familiar as connection methods for consumer audio equipment, but they are standards that are often used in professional audio equipment such as stages and studios

I have probably spent a third of my life in studios, about half of that in all-digital environments and have never encountered I²S outside a development lab. Which, of course, makes it ideal for selling to audiophile suckers.

AES (with external lock to a master clock source) is the de facto standard.

 

[auronthas]

I have probably spent a third of my life in studios, about half of that in all-digital environments and have never encountered I²S outside a development lab. Which, of course, makes it ideal for selling to audiophile suckers.

AES (with external lock to a master clock source) is the de facto standard.

The demand of DDC is getting higher in audiophile market

 

[iLoveCats]

Yes, my original question is how to extract physical SACD's DSD bit stream data from bluray/SACD player to D90 via HDMI/I2S interface

I'm waiting for an hdmi audio > I2S extractor to do this very thing with a Sony x800 player and a D90SE. I'll let you know if it works. I should have the part any day now.

 

[auronthas]

I'm waiting for an hdmi audio > I2S extractor to do this very thing with a Sony x800 player and a D90SE. I'll let you know if it works. I should have the part any day now

I have that similar BluRay player/D90/ and extractor too. I have changed the phase reversed on D90 I²S setting , just short of 5V external power supply USB cable . Will test over the weekend.

 

[Roen]

I want a DAC only—flush buttons are OK, though not desired either—so the DX7 Pro+ is not competitive in any way for me... the protruding button is exactly the issue since it gets in the way of my other devices (RME ADI2 Pro, Monolith THX 887) that provide pre-amp volume controls.

Of course, if your goal is a Preamp + Amp, then your milage may vary (as they say) and the DX7 Pro+ could be very competitive. Especially since the D10 is a pretty crappy headphone amplifier.

You can just use the DX7 Pro+ as a DAC only……and just put it further back on your desk so the knob isn’t in the way?

Simple solutions.

 

[Roen]

Depends on how you define "competitive"?

Which is better as a Standalone DAC?

AFAIK, you’re not forced to use the HP Amp on the DX7 Pro+.

 

[Killingbeans]

Which is better as a Standalone DAC?

That just shifts the need for a definition to the word "better"

The D10 Ballanced is pretty much as good as it gets if you just want a barebones DAC.

 

[Roen]

That just shifts the need for a definition to the word "better"

The D10 Ballanced is pretty much as good as it gets if you just want a barebones DAC.

The D10 is good no doubt, but it objectively does rank below both the DX7 Pro+ and D90SE. (Whether that’s significant is another story).

I suppose the D90SE being $200 less but only 0.2 dB SINAD less at a level > 123 dB is it’s main strength over the DX7 Pro+?

 

[Killingbeans]

I suppose the D90SE being $200 less but only 0.2 dB SINAD less at a level > 123 dB is it’s main strength over the DX7 Pro+?

Not even that. If you look at the SINAD measurement on the Audio Precision analyzer in real time, you'll notice that the value fluctuates roughly +/- 1dB.

The value you see here on ASR is a snapshot Amir has taken trying to capture the average. I'd say that 0.2dB can be safely disregarded as measurement tolerance. If he did the tests again, there's a good chance that the roles could switch. As in: the D90SE could suddenly appear to have 0.2dB better SINAD than the DX7 Pro+.

 

[SashaR]

Hello!
What are the measurements of a PAIR of D90SE + LA90 devices measured when they work together??? Both of these devices, when measured individually, have less than ~130 dB of intermodulation distortion... Are there mathematical ways to estimate the intermodulation distortions of THESE TWO DEVICES WORKING IN PAIRS?
Maybe someone can MEASURE the REAL bundle of these devices?

Thank you!

 

[Killingbeans]

Are there mathematical ways to estimate the intermodulation distortions of THESE TWO DEVICES WORKING IN PAIRS?

The Signal Chain: How do noise and distortion propagate through my system?

This article is to explore how noise and distortion change through our system, and how different components can influence the final output. A common question is “If I have DAC A, preamp B, and amp C, where should I set the volume and gain controls for the best performance?” Usually this...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[SashaR]

The Signal Chain: How do noise and distortion propagate through my system?

This article is to explore how noise and distortion change through our system, and how different components can influence the final output. A common question is “If I have DAC A, preamp B, and amp C, where should I set the volume and gain controls for the best performance?” Usually this...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thank you for the math! I reword the "mathematical part" of my question, please! What is the measuring of the D90SE + LA90 bundle? The already Computed Number, "digits"?

 

[Killingbeans]

It's dependent on the output voltage of both the D90SE and the LA90. I'm not good enough* at math to do the computation of a specific scenario without getting a splitting headache, so I'll pass. Maybe @DonH56 will take pity on you?

To be pedantic: "have less than ~130 dB of intermodulation distortion" doesn't make any sense. It should be "show intermodulation distortion ~130 dB below the test signal" or "show intermodulation distortion at -130 dB or lower with the test signal".

Sorry for the

*Or maybe I am... but I'm way too rusty.

 

[SashaR]

It's dependent on the output voltage of both the D90SE and the LA90.

I use the D90SE as a DAC (probably it's 5.3 volts on an XLR?) and I listen at about 40 -60 dB (maybe even 70 dB sometimes - at picks) from speakers with 6 ohms without preamplification in the LA90.

It should be "show intermodulation distortion ~130 dB below the test signal" or "show intermodulation distortion at -130 dB or lower with the test signal".

Thank you very much!!!! You are right

 

[auronthas]

I'm waiting for an hdmi audio > I2S extractor to do this very thing with a Sony x800 player and a D90SE. I'll let you know if it works. I should have the part any day now.

Hi @iLoveCats , I have extracted DSD signals successfully with HDMI/I²S interface to D90 . D90 settings are Reversed Phase, I²S DSDR=LRCLK, DSD Flag 15.

 

[auronthas]

Hi @iLoveCats , I have successfully done the extraction of DSD signals with HDMI/I²S interface to D90 . D90 settings are Reversed Phase, I²S DSDR=LRCLK, DSD Flag 15.

View attachment 250750

Also on SACD/Bluray player side,
1) under audio settings, set DSD output mode as Auto;
2) under system settings, HDMI audio settings, set to HDMI 2 if you are connected to HDMI 2 Audio only.

 

[thdny]

Hi,
What is the best way to feed audio originating from HDMI (Chromecast most of the time) to topping DACs? I don't want to go through the tv's optical output. Should I get an hdmi audio extractor? After spending a lot of money I am not sure if I can trust these audio extractors that sell for ~30$ on amazon. I want to get coax spdif output.

 

[Mirya]

Hi @iLoveCats , I have extracted DSD signals successfully with HDMI/I²S interface to D90 . D90 settings are Reversed Phase, I²S DSDR=LRCLK, DSD Flag 15.

View attachment 250750

Awesome, let me try and follow the setup.

By the way, may I know where did you buy the HDMI/I2S extractor? Any link is appreciated.

 

[auronthas]

Hi,
What is the best way to feed audio originating from HDMI (Chromecast most of the time) to topping DACs? I don't want to go through the tv's optical output. Should I get an hdmi audio extractor? After spending a lot of money I am not sure if I can trust these audio extractors that sell for ~30$ on amazon. I want to get coax spdif output.

The HDMI/I2S extractor that i used (as above photo) has coaxial and toslink output too

 

[auronthas]

Awesome, let me try and follow the setup.

By the way, may I know where did you buy the HDMI/I2S extractor? Any link is appreciated.

AliExpress, here's the link,

TZT HDMI/MHL Digital Interface Separate Extract Audio I2S/Optic Fiber/Coaxial HDMI To I2S/IIS Assembled
https://a.aliexpress.com/_msDdtSa