Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[Killingbeans]

For those of you who have heard it, is d90se suitable for listening to music? What I mean is musicality. I don't want to use it to check whether the recording is good or bad, just to make my ears comfortable and happy！

A DAC is not a musical instrument, IMO. If you want gear that adds to the source material, go for speakers/headphones with wacky house curves, or play around a bit with EQ and/or digital plugins. A well designed DAC is nothing but a tool with a simple job. People who tell you that all DACs have different "personalities" are either fooling themselves or are trying to fool you. At best you get extremely subtle differences that are unnoticeable unless you have a "tell" to focus on. Musicality is not even on the table. It never was.

For ear comfort, go here: https://www.brainwavzaudio.com/pages/brainwavz-earpad-guide

 

[rlwings]

Kind of a random question but has anybody successfully got the i2s input to work on the D90SE using SMSL's newer DDC - " PO100 PRO"? ... Or maybe have you had success with the older DDC - Douk Audio U2 Pro? - May I ask what settings worked for you? - Can't seem to get my new SMSL to pass a PCM 2 channel signal through the Topping's i2s port... Thank you!

 

[Nooborghini]

Could someone explain to me why one would go with this product over Gustard X26 Pro?
Will it really make a difference on a "high-end" headphone like the Susvara or should I just stick with my FiiO M15 as my DAC?
I'm just trying to understand how scientifically validate why people are saying they prefer the Gustard X26 Pro over the D90LE as it sounds better.

 

[Trell]

Could someone explain to me why one would go with this product over Gustard X26 Pro?
Will it really make a difference on a "high-end" headphone like the Susvara or should I just stick with my FiiO M15 as my DAC?
I'm just trying to understand how scientifically validate why people are saying they prefer the Gustard X26 Pro over the D90LE as it sounds better.

The Gustard is about 60% more expensive so I guess that is one reason to chose the D90SE. Any claims that the Gustard sounds any different then D90SE is just BS, assuming same filters where chosen.

 

[Nooborghini]

The Gustard is about 60% more expensive so I guess that is one reason to chose the D90SE. Any claims that the Gustard sounds any different then D90SE is just BS, assuming same filters where chosen.

Right now I have an X26 Pro (Black) and a D90LE (Silver) at the same price.
I have an A90D in silver so I was trying to figure out if I should even consider the X26 Pro if I can't hear the difference between the two.
Based on my readings/searchings, one can't be different than the other in an audible sense correct?
From what I understand and speculate, the people saying X sounds better than Y is due to an imbalance of dB when flipping between X and Y where our ears perceive an acoustic property change. For example, If I want to feel a specific slam on a note or "clearer" I'd raise my volume knob a bit.
I understand that EQ is doing the same thing but that would be processed through the entire track rather than when I volume DJ, it is only for those increments of dB.

EDIT:
I'd ideally like to stick with the same colour theme, ergo the X26 Pro vs D90 situation.
This stemmed from people raving about R2R dacs and the May/Spring vs other DAC's.

I know R2R can sound different (I assume with my limited knowledge) is due to the slight distortion it may bring to the table?
In theory, the Holo May, the cleanest R2R DAC should sound similar to the D90LE (Or whatever is the best measuring DAC out there) right? or am I misunderstanding?

 

[zhgutov]

Right now I have an X26 Pro (Black) and a D90LE (Silver) at the same price.
I have an A90D in silver so I was trying to figure out if I should even consider the X26 Pro if I can't hear the difference between the two.
Based on my readings/searchings, one can't be different than the other in an audible sense correct?
From what I understand and speculate, the people saying X sounds better than Y is due to an imbalance of dB when flipping between X and Y where our ears perceive an acoustic property change. For example, If I want to feel a specific slam on a note or "clearer" I'd raise my volume knob a bit.
I understand that EQ is doing the same thing but that would be processed through the entire track rather than when I volume DJ, it is only for those increments of dB.

EDIT:
I'd ideally like to stick with the same colour theme, ergo the X26 Pro vs D90 situation.
This stemmed from people raving about R2R dacs and the May/Spring vs other DAC's.

I know R2R can sound different (I assume with my limited knowledge) is due to the slight distortion it may bring to the table?
In theory, the Holo May, the cleanest R2R DAC should sound similar to the D90LE (Or whatever is the best measuring DAC out there) right? or am I misunderstanding?

I like this video: Holo May review
Have fun watching it

Personally, I decided to buy D90SE because it is perfectly consistent in terms of jitter across all inputs, and it nearly perfect in all other aspects of measurements.
I think this is quiet an achievement by its developer, especially in the attention to detail.
That's why I like it.

 

[Nooborghini]

I like this video: Holo May review
Have fun watching it

Personally, I decided to buy D90SE because it is perfectly consistent in terms of jitter across all inputs, and it nearly perfect in all other aspects of measurements.
I think this is quiet an achievement by its developer, especially in the attention to detail.
That's why I like it.

Appreciate the response!

Yeah, that's what I was expecting, recently was starting to wonder if I was misinformed because so many people/posts pop up that DAC sounds different.
Maybe I'll have to get both and do A/B at the same dB level.

 

[linger63]

The Gustard is about 60% more expensive so I guess that is one reason to chose the D90SE. Any claims that the Gustard sounds any different then D90SE is just BS, assuming same filters where chosen.

They don't have the same filters.

Gustard X26 Pro

1. PCM Filter: 3 positions: Vivid, Gentle or Composite. Gustard bypassed the stock ESS filters and developed their own with the help of a hardware DSP by Analog Devices. Gentle will have a slight roll-off in the treble, Vivid will be more extended in the treble and Composite seems to work as a combination of the two.
2. DSD Filter: has 4 positions, 47K, 50K, 60K and 70K. You are selecting the cut-off frequency for DSD files.

Topping D90SE

The Topping D90SE offers 7 digital reconstruction filters with very different properties. These filter options are built into the ESS DAC chips.

 

[zhgutov]

They don't have the same filters.

Gustard X26 Pro

1. PCM Filter: 3 positions: Vivid, Gentle or Composite. Gustard bypassed the stock ESS filters and developed their own with the help of a hardware DSP by Analog Devices. Gentle will have a slight roll-off in the treble, Vivid will be more extended in the treble and Composite seems to work as a combination of the two.
2. DSD Filter: has 4 positions, 47K, 50K, 60K and 70K. You are selecting the cut-off frequency for DSD files.

Topping D90SE

The Topping D90SE offers 7 digital reconstruction filters with very different properties. These filter options are built into the ESS DAC chips.

As I can see both DACs have linear phase fast roll off filters with very similar properties (vivid and filter 5).
Both have not enough attenuation before the Nyquist frequency (at least if you compare them with something like SoX).

Maybe I'll have to get both and do A/B at the same dB level.

Well, you can do some quick experiment. Try ABX the following with the foobar:
* track01
* track02

This is the track recorded from this youtube video:

I know, this is AAC from youtube, but anyway. And this one is not limited by 15 kHz for some reason.

One of these tracks is the "original" digital recording.
Another track is passed through Topping D90SE (-10 dB preamp, filter 5), Topping A90D (volume 99 low gain) and Lake People ADC RS04.
Can you pass the ABX comparision?

P.S. I think this cannot be used to estimate the difference in digital filters, at least because the tracks are 44.1 kHz.

 

[staticV3]

I know, this is AAC from youtube, but anyway

It's Opus, not AAC:

 

[Trell]

As I can see both DACs have linear phase fast roll off filters with very similar properties (vivid and filter 5).
Both have not enough attenuation before the Nyquist frequency (at least if you compare them with something like SoX).


Well, you can do some quick experiment. Try ABX the following with the foobar:
* track01
* track02

This is the track recorded from this youtube video:

I know, this is AAC from youtube, but anyway. And this one is not limited by 15 kHz for some reason.

One of these tracks is the "original" digital recording.
Another track is passed through Topping D90SE (-10 dB preamp, filter 5), Topping A90D (volume 99 low gain) and Lake People ADC RS04.
Can you pass the ABX comparision?

P.S. I think this cannot be used to estimate the difference in digital filters, at least because the tracks are 44.1 kHz.

I enjoyed that Vivaldi track.

I do wish I could hear anything above 15 kHz at all.

 

[Gggggas]

Hello mates ,

I sent an email yesterday to Topping asking if they are preparing an upcoming DAC with the AKM 4499EX chipset and I received this reply:

"I am glad to have your mail.

We are considering this possibility. Please stay tuned.

Best Regards!"

So from what I understand they may already be working on an upcoming DAC with this chipset that is being praised by reviewers on the Gustard A26.

 

[MadMaxx]

Hello mates ,

I sent an email yesterday to Topping asking if they are preparing an upcoming DAC with the AKM 4499EX chipset and I received this reply:

"I am glad to have your mail.

We are considering this possibility. Please stay tuned.

Best Regards!"

So from what I understand they may already be working on an upcoming DAC with this chipset that is being praised by reviewers on the Gustard A26.

Topping already released a dac with the AKM 4499EX chipset: Topping E70 Velvet.

 

[Gggggas]

Topping already released a dac with the AKM 4499EX chipset: Topping E70 Velvet.

My bad I forgot to say that the reply they gave me was about the D90SE successor

 

[zhgutov]

Hello mates ,

I sent an email yesterday to Topping asking if they are preparing an upcoming DAC with the AKM 4499EX chipset and I received this reply:

"I am glad to have your mail.

We are considering this possibility. Please stay tuned.

Best Regards!"

So from what I understand they may already be working on an upcoming DAC with this chipset that is being praised by reviewers on the Gustard A26.

It is interesting if they will be able to achieve the same level of perfection across all measurements on any random production unit.

 

[Gggggas]

It is interesting if they will be able to achieve the same level of perfection across all measurements on any random production unit.

Yes it is really interesting! I am seriously considering to upgrade from the D90SE to the Gustard A26 and I told them that but since I have always been a Topping fan I wanted just a hint on whether they are considering using that chipset on an upcoming successor.

 

[solid12345]

It is interesting if they will be able to achieve the same level of perfection across all measurements on any random production unit.

Amir says the d90se is “more perfect than perfect” so what will it be in 1-2 years when another topping product launches, more perfect than absolute perfection?

 

[userb]

How does the new ADI-2/4 SE's measured performance compare to this?

 

[Trell]

How does the new ADI-2/4 SE's measured performance compare to this?

Here are measurements made by @pkane:

RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE - Auto-measured with Multitone

I don't know if this post is about the extremely nice, new RME ADI 2/4 Pro SE interface or about the new automated measurement capability of the Multitone app :) Most of these measurements were done automatically using a Multitone test plan (I'll share in a separate post). This new feature...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[staticV3]

How does the new ADI-2/4 SE's measured performance compare to this?

	ADI-2/4 Pro SE (XLR)	D90SE/LE (XLR)
Max output voltage	16.37V	5.25V
SINAD	116dB	127.5dB
Noise	0.869-8.69μV(A)	0.933μV(A)