Topping D70S fried my speakers...

[pablolie]

Cr*p - but that's the occasional issue with a fully digital path controlled by just hardware/firmware... it may run into a bug and do something crazy... like this.

About 15 years ago, I moved for work for nearly a year. I set up AudioEngine A5 directly powered by a Squeezebox "Classic" SB3, which performed DAC duties and also has built-in volume control. One day, a tropical storm delayed my ability to get home, and when I arrived, the A5 were playing pink noise at a crazy high volume... seems some weird power surge or something had hit the SB3, which was at 100% volume indeed. Luckily, the A5 had a volume control I had only dialed up to kinda midway. The speaker's back was quite worringly hot, but things survived. My neighbors weren't happy... ...but it could have been much worse.

Incidentally, that year for me was an eye-opening experience for the enjoyment I was able to get away from my $35k+ system with a budget system (the A5 and SB3 together were like $750) - and yet the sound made me completely happy and thoroughly entertained me for that year.

 

[blueone]

Just today, i was driving while playing Amazon music streaming. The sound seemed low even though I had the volume set to max. So I compensated and was enjoying the music until Google map decided to announce the next turn. Oh man. I have never had my car audio system get so loud!!! It nearly blew my ears out! As I noted, this kind of thing happens. Only pro gear has compression built-in and even then, it is no panacea.

Sorry for the late reply (I've never read this thread), but you raise an interesting issue, Amir, that should be called out with Amazon Music. In my experience with the iPhone, iPad, and MacOS Amazon Music apps, when you start the app and play a track for the first time on the latest activation, the app sets the software volume control at about 50%. I've trained myself to reset the volume level every time to the maximum, so that if I switch from streaming to a CD I don't get an unpleasant surprise through the DAC which drives the amps. Especially in a car while driving it is very easy to forget and just turn up the volume in car's audio system, and then you might get a loud surprise - which could startle a driver - of another app (like Maps) blasting a directive without warning. Once was enough on my primary audio system to train me, and fortunately it did no damage. IMO, this is a bug in the Amazon software, that it resets the volume control to about 50% on every activation, which most software doesn't work like that. I haven't found a way to make the Amazon apps retain the last setting.

 

[Roland68]

Shouldn’t a glitch effect those volume control devices as well? After all they are controlled digitally by a processor that runs a software (firmware).

If you read all of my posts on this subject, you will find that I always preach the same thing.

The starting point/basic setting of the DAC chip is always 0dB = full volume. You have to control it specifically via register in order to reduce the volume.
But after the start, after an error or reset and when switched off, the basic setting of the DAC chip is 0dB = full volume again.

The starting point/default setting of each volume control IC is "volume off" or lowest volume.
This is the setting when powered off, at startup, and after an error or reset.

 

[Roland68]

Can you provide me with a "proper volume pot", I've asked a couple times now and haven't received any product names or links.

There are probably hundreds of preamps in the world, but far fewer with XLR/Balanced connectors.

There is currently a certain vacuum due to the development in recent years in the DAC and headphone amplifier area with XLR connections. Previously, XLR connectors were only found in the pro audio sector and were the exception in the hi-fi sector, especially under $/€ 1000.

Just as an example:
Topping Pre 90
Singer SA-1
SMSL SP400
Gustard P26
Gustard H16
Topping L70

With RCA it becomes much cheaper and more diverse.
The price/performance winner is currently the Sabaj A10h with relay-based volume control and remote control for well under $/€ 100.

 

[restorer-john]

Shouldn’t a glitch effect those volume control devices as well? After all they are controlled digitally by a processor that runs a software (firmware).

They often have a hardwired default level, which is never 0dB. In the absence of valid/corrupt/glitched data they default to say -30dB or similar. The last valid level is also written to static or backed up via a super capacitor style trickle feed to the volume/input controller.

Some are really clever. Yamaha amplifiers read the value of the Alps motorized potentiometer via a A/D line, then digitally control the analog volume IC and the geared motor that drives the knob. Can't glitch as it has the pot track variables written in EPROM which is crosschecks, even at turn on, so it 'knows' where the volume knob is. Makes for some cool -20dB muting functions where whatever the position of the volume (physical), it will rotate it down and then back to the same position whilst ramping up and down the volume.

 

[strea]

There are probably hundreds of preamps in the world, but far fewer with XLR/Balanced connectors.

There is currently a certain vacuum due to the development in recent years in the DAC and headphone amplifier area with XLR connections. Previously, XLR connectors were only found in the pro audio sector and were the exception in the hi-fi sector, especially under $/€ 1000.

Just as an example:
Topping Pre 90
Singer SA-1
SMSL SP400
Gustard P26
Gustard H16
Topping L70

With RCA it becomes much cheaper and more diverse.
The price/performance winner is currently the Sabaj A10h with relay-based volume control and remote control for well under $/€ 100.

I appreciate the list, thank you very much. I am utilizing Genelec 8030c's and 7050c which only have XLR input/out and I'd like to stay full balanced. Therefore it looks like I would have to aim towards the Pre90, Singer SA-1, or Gustard P26 if I am understanding correctly? Apologies for the noob question, but some of these like the L70 are Headphone amplifiers they say.. my monitors are already amplified/active, all I need is a DAC + an analog preamp correct? I just don't want to deal with another digital VC issue like I had today. Does the ADI-2-DAC use digital VC or would it be an all in one solution for me? Just a bit confused, thank you.

 

[Roland68]

I appreciate the list, thank you very much. I am utilizing Genelec 8030c's and 7050c which only have XLR input/out and I'd like to stay full balanced. Therefore it looks like I would have to aim towards the Pre90, Singer SA-1, or Gustard P26 if I am understanding correctly? Apologies for the noob question, but some of these like the L70 are Headphone amplifiers they say.. my monitors are already amplified/active, all I need is a DAC + an analog preamp correct? I just don't want to deal with another digital VC issue like I had today. Does the ADI-2-DAC use digital VC or would it be an all in one solution for me? Just a bit confused, thank you.

These headphone amps are analog preamps.
They are cheaper than pure preamps because they are produced in larger quantities.
Unless you need multiple inputs (more than 1 x XLR and 1 x RCA) then it would be silly to spend more money on a balanced preamp without a headphone amp.
Two thoughts, not all devices have a remote control and I would prefer a device with relay based volume control as it is absolutely channel equal.

 

[strea]

These headphone amps are analog preamps.
They are cheaper than pure preamps because they are produced in larger quantities.
Unless you need multiple inputs (more than 1 x XLR and 1 x RCA) then it would be silly to spend more money on a balanced preamp without a headphone amp.
Two thoughts, not all devices have a remote control and I would prefer a device with relay based volume control as it is absolutely channel equal.

I do not need a remote control. But I am a tad confused on the setup. So it would be PC -> USB to DAC -> DAC XLR Output into Preamp -> Preamp XLR Output into my Genelec 7050c -> 7050c's XLR Output into Genelec 8030c's.

Basically just putting the Preamp in between the DAC and Subwoofer correct? So I would just need 2 more XLR cables for DAC -> Pre. My sub does output to my monitors. Thank you.

 

[Roland68]

I do not need a remote control. But I am a tad confused on the setup. So it would be PC -> USB to DAC -> DAC XLR Output into Preamp -> Preamp XLR Output into my Genelec 7050c -> 7050c's XLR Output into Genelec 8030c's.

Basically just putting the Preamp in between the DAC and Subwoofer correct? So I would just need 2 more XLR cables for DAC -> Pre. My sub does output to my monitors. Thank you.

Exactly

 

[Liya]

Am I safe with the RME ADI-2 Dac and Genelec 8030C? I believe all Genelecs built protection circuitry into their monitors? And what about RME volume control?
I've had many dacs with volume control connected directly to various active speakers and never had any issue as the OP.

 

[JeremyFife]

You are not building, just assembling it. I used a local electronics repair man to assemble mine. FYI, they are not shady. As @restorer-john said, they are used in many upmarket products. China is the supplier to the world and AliBaba is their shop front.

I'm interested in trying this, balanced. Are there any pointers - a guide, or something similar - on how this could be assembled?

 

[strea]

Am I safe with the RME ADI-2 Dac and Genelec 8030C? I believe all Genelecs built protection circuitry into their monitors? And what about RME volume control?
I've had many dacs with volume control connected directly to various active speakers and never had any issue as the OP.

I'd be curious to know this as well, it's where I am leaning towards next. Does the RME also have digital volume control or is it different than the E70 in that regard?

 

[sarumbear]

I'm interested in trying this, balanced. Are there any pointers - a guide, or something similar - on how this could be assembled?

I’m sure there are many YouTube videos where similar parts are assembled.

 

[Roland68]

Am I safe with the RME ADI-2 Dac and Genelec 8030C? I believe all Genelecs built protection circuitry into their monitors? And what about RME volume control?
I've had many dacs with volume control connected directly to various active speakers and never had any issue as the OP.

I'd be curious to know this as well, it's where I am leaning towards next. Does the RME also have digital volume control or is it different than the E70 in that regard?

A digital volume control basically has nothing to do with the problem discussed in this thread.

It's all about volume reduction via the DSP function of the DAC chip.
This can lead to the problem discussed here (full volume).
This has nothing to do with other types of digital volume controls.

As far as I know, RME uses its own DSP function with volume control, but I don't know for sure.
But these devices have been in use worldwide for years in several generations and in large numbers and I am not aware of any such problems.

 

[strea]

A digital volume control basically has nothing to do with the problem discussed in this thread.

It's all about volume reduction via the DSP function of the DAC chip.
This can lead to the problem discussed here (full volume).
This has nothing to do with other types of digital volume controls.

As far as I know, RME uses its own DSP function with volume control, but I don't know for sure.
But these devices have been in use worldwide for years in several generations and in large numbers and I am not aware of any such problems.

Thanks. Sounds like I'll be going with an ADI-2 DAC then. From my brief research I hear a lot about it's reliability.

 

[sonitus mirus]

Thanks. Sounds like I'll be going with an ADI-2 DAC then. From my brief research I hear a lot about it's reliability.

Been using my ADI-2 DAC FS since September 2018 about 6-12 hours nearly every day. No issues with it and I would purchase it again.

 

[JeffGB]

My solution to this problem is the use of a Schiit Heresy as an analog volume control between my DAC and power amp. For balanced systems the Schiit Magneus does the same. They are simply decent alps controls buffered by the output stage. Cheap and no mess, no fuss.

 

[strea]

My solution to this problem is the use of a Schiit Heresy as an analog volume control between my DAC and power amp. For balanced systems the Schiit Magneus does the same. They are simply decent alps controls buffered by the output stage. Cheap and no mess, no fuss.

I didn't see Schiit offering any preamps with XLR out besides the Freya, which didn't measure the best on here I think.

 

[sarumbear]

Try reading “I have to disagree. Most owners of active speakers connect a DAC directly to power.”

I do read it but maybe you have not.

I said: “Connecting a DAC output direct to a power amplifier is never safe.” You disagreed saying most users do that. It’s neither here nor there that they do. My arguments was and as it’s proven by the OP that it’s not a safe method.

 

[Deleted member 58722]

I have run my DAC as pre-amp with no problem, so long as you follow best practice. That is, ensure you turn pre amp to zero when turning off. No surprises when turning on next time!