Topping B200 Monoblock Amplifier Review

[BeeKay]

What about any class D like a tpa3255 amplifier? Do you have any such to compare at similar volume levels?

I have an integrated NC252MP based integrated stored away. Maybe I hook that up as well.

 

[Lambda]

The B200 doesn’t like complex load under 2 Ohm.

But for 99.8 % of the speakers out there, the Topping B200 is quite a perfect amp!

But we have not actually seen a test (other then a power test) with a Complex 4 Ohm loads
So How good it would Perform with Complex loads is Speculation and not tested.

 

[Zuviene1]

Hello everyone,
I wanted to know could B200 be used for speakers with impedance going to 3ohm? THANKS

 

[tavaz]

I have a genuine question as someone who has been wondering about this for a while. I was considering opening a new topic, but then I saw your message.

I don't think all amplifiers sound different, but I don't think all amplifiers sound the same either.
Since I've eq'ed a lot songs to make them sound better (remastered them), I consider frequency response to be biggest culprit in how something sounds, beside volume level of course.

So, it has been my hypothesis that when two amplifiers sound different it is most often due to a different frequency response, probably due to the speaker load on the amplifier. Sometimes it could also be due to a different distortion profile.
Do you, Amir, or anyone else here, think that this hypothesis is correct?

And also, if this Topping amp doesn't change, or hardly changes, the frequency response no matter how difficult the speaker load, even the load from the biggest Wilson speakers, then it will sound completely neutral, whereas various other types of amplififers, more traditional ones you might say, will not sound completely neutral, as the speaker load will change the frequency response depending on what speaker load its being fed.
Would that also be correct?

Also this is purely anecdotal, but I compared a Nord Purifi amp with a Naim two-box set, and an Arcam SR-250, and matched the volume level to the best of my capabilities. The Nord Purifi I would imagine would be just as neutral as the Topping one, whereas I would imagine that the Naim and the Arcam changed the frequency response a bit due to the loudspeaker load, hence the differences I heard, which to me also sounded like a change in frequency response/EQ (if it wasn't placebo or volume level, of course).

The frequency response can be different in amplifiers only if the DF is ridicoulosly low (like in tube amp without global feedback). In modern (and properly designed) amplifier the flatness of frequency response of modern is such that it is impossible to distinguish tonal differences.
response is

 

[BeeKay]

Is it for one amplifier or a pair?

13w is one B200 at idle

 

[totti1965]

There's few amps that do, correct? Those that handle such things without issues tend to be more $. Without looking, I assume something like the Benchmark.

Extremely few……
And very few speakers have such loads. Perhaps some Hypex/purify amps and Benchmark can handle these loads which do completely not make any sense today.
Weren’t it some 989 Quad Electrostats and Beveridge Speakers in the 70s and 80s with these capacitive Amp Killing loads, even down to 0.5 Ohms at 20 kHz?
The owners have known which amps only they could use.

The (wrong) thinking in these days was: If it can handle even this speaker - it must be a good amp. Even for my 10 times less demanding speakers.
It’s wrong thinking because: If your speaker is not extremely demanding, you don’t have to have this expensive Mark Levinson stuff. Every amp with accurate amplification would have done the job even as good as the amps which can handle 1 Ohm!

 

[ldp82]

I think the sensitivity spec on those is is 90db. There are a lot of less efficient speakers out there. In his video, Amir mentions lack of headroom with switching supplies. And protection circuitry throttles down to 153W. I would probably go with higher power Class D.

You are probably are correct for other speakers. I also have a Buckeye Hypex NC502MP 6-Channel amp that I had been using. I did not like what I was hearing when using my AVM70 for 2 channel. (the shield-> AVM70 8k->Buckeye works GREAT for movies). This could be an ARC issue, who knows. What I do know is running my Cambridge CXN directly into my B200 sounds better then CXN->AVM70->Buckeye. The real test will be in a week or 2 when my 3rd b200 arrives and I power my center (C426BE) with it. If movie dialog sounds better I will have a definitive answer for my system.

 

[Matt_Holland]

Hello everyone,
I wanted to know could B200 be used for speakers with impedance going to 3ohm? THANKS

I previously mentioned wanting to know the power output at 3.2ohm as this is a potential impedance minimum for any 4ohm speaker.

The B200 drops a lot of power at 2ohm so in theory if pushed hard into a speaker which dips to 2-3ohm at points in the frequency range it would not deliver a flat frequency response dynamically.

 

[misterdog]

Weren’t it some 989 Quad Electrostats and Beveridge Speakers in the 70s and 80s with these capacitive Amp Killing loads, even down to 0.5 Ohms at 20 kHz?
The owners have known wich Amps only they could use.

I use Quad 989 Electrostatics.

I also have B200 amps, fine no problem, sound great, even with the horizontal heatsinsks.

The Benchmark AHB 2 ran warmer with vertical heatsinks.

 

[Mulder]

I am waiting on my 3rd b200 to arrive. If I get 10 years out of them I will be happy $60 a year to run the system, not bad! Seeing how quickly things are changing I will probably want to upgrade by then anyways.

Why. An amp can’t be better than transparent. If it lasts ”forever” - why upgrade?

 

[ldp82]

I previously mentioned wanting to know the power output at 3.2ohm as this is a potential impedance minimum for any 4ohm speaker.

The B200 drops a lot of power at 2ohm so in theory if pushed hard into a speaker which dips to 2-3ohm at points in the frequency range it would not deliver a flat frequency response dynamically.

Looking at Amri's review of the F228be he shows dips to 3.4 ohms. Years ago I read a review that liked to use Rosanna by toto for a dynamic load test. I have played this song LOUD and the b200's did not miss a beat (pun intended).

 

[ldp82]

Why. An amp can’t be better than transparent. If it lasts ”forever” - why upgrade?

dont tell my wife but I have a chronic case of upgraditis. Joking aside, I may have new speakers in a decade with different requirements or my gear is in a larger room and I need more power. Maybe a new amp comes out that has something else to offer. Who knows what the future will hold? I have an old McCormack dna 225. It has been a solid amp. When the caps finally die is it worth fixing it or should I upgrade? Same thing with these B200's when they get old what do you do?

 

[Doodski]

dont tell my wife but I have a chronic case of upgraditis. Joking aside, I may have new speakers in a decade with different requirements or my gear is in a larger room and I need more power. Maybe a new amp comes out that has something else to offer. Who knows what the future will hold? I have an old McCormack dna 225. It has been a solid amp. When the caps finally die is it worth fixing it or should I upgrade? Same thing with these B200's when they get old what do you do?

I understand it runs hot and outputs high power. If the price is right on a recap it is worthwhile to do. The B200 longevity remains to be seen so I don't have a answer regarding it.

 

[Cbdb2]

I invite you to perform an engineering analysis to show how the output impedance of an amplifier influence the mechanical motion of the speaker driver diaphragm, given that there is usually a crossover filter network in between, and if it is used as a direct drive in active speakers, the coil impedance (DC resistance and coil inductance), plus all the other electromechanical factors. Then come back with the results and try to convince us again.

Dosnt matter, what matters is the voltage at amp out/speaker in. An ideal amp dosnt care if the load is reactive or not, it will still put out a non distorted output. If an amp thats driving a reactive load, most speakers, has 10db more distortion while another amp only has a db, dont you want to know? This is the reality, not the sinad of an amp driving a resistive load.
You said the speaker load screws up the measurements, Im saying the speaker load screws up the amp, and thats what were testing.
Idealy Ild like to see both measurements, but a reactive load is what we live with.

 

[Cbdb2]

It is not the wrong design if it meets their thermal requirement. This is a massive, low impedance machined aluminum case which dissipates heat quite well including on all surfaces, not just on the sides.

For many amplifiers these days, the heatsink is part of the design style of the unit. Sure, the fins also help thermal but likely this is the look they were after.

90% of the heat will be generated in the output transistors which are thermaly mounted to the heat sink. So almost all the heat goes directly into the heat sink.
If putting the fins verticaly can make the heat sink 25% smaller it would save weight and money, basic engineering. Do people really care that much about the direction of black barely visible heat sink fins?

 

[Cbdb2]

Would using larger capacitors, apart from extending life, improve anything in the dynamics and control of the bass speakers?

Probably not, unless your using close to full power, then youve got bigger problems.

 

[Cbdb2]

You guys going on about the huge failure of the heatsink design are the engineer equivalent of the loony cables sound different audiophile guys.

Who said it was huge?

 

[Blumlein 88]

Extremely few……
And very few speakers have such loads. Perhaps some Hypex/purify amps and Benchmark can handle these loads which do completely not make any sense today.
Weren’t it some 989 Quad Electrostats and Beveridge Speakers in the 70s and 80s with these capacitive Amp Killing loads, even down to 0.5 Ohms at 20 kHz?
The owners have known wich Amps only they could use.

The (wrong) thinking in these days was: If it can handle even this speaker - it must be a good amp. Even for my 10 times less demanding speakers.
It’s wrong thinking because: If your speaker is not extremely demanding, you don’t have to have this expensive Mark Levinson stuff. Every amp with accurate amplification would have done the job even as good as the amps which can handle 1 Ohm!

There are things like this Soundlab. I owned some for a long time. Around an ohm at 20 khz 70 degrees capacitive and very inefficient. It could be less than an ohm depending upon the bias setting.

I've used many amps with them. Between amps I once used a Sherwood receiver for a few weeks. Mosfet 45 watts into 8 ohms. I think 60 into 4 ohms. Played them fine. Yes I couldn't blast volume quite as much, but otherwise worked. You people are being neurotic about the low impedance issues with this Topping amp. I also owned some Acoustat Twos which had a nearly identical impedance to the Soundlabs. I used it with a McIntosh 752. 75 wpc @ 8 ohms and 100 wpc at 4 ohms. Worked fine for 6 or 8 months until I purchased a larger amp. I used the Soundlabs for a few years with a Classe' 25 which was 250 watts @ 8 ohms and would double down to 2 ohms and would play 1 ohm. It was better, but other than the power wasn't a tremendous improvement. This was an amp that was a favorite with the horribly cruel Apogee ribbons. Now that was something not everything could play. They were nearly pure resistance, but it was a 1 ohm resistance. Knew someone with those.

I've used tube amps with the Soundlabs. A Fisher integrated 6BQ5 amp of 17 wpc would play them. You had to watch volume, and bass was rather flabby. Frequency response was effected. Also used Dynacos, triode VTLs of about 35 wpc, big VTLs, and all worked without blowing up.

Best amp on them, and it was a bigger difference Wyred4Sound Icepower based class D. I've also had other class D on them.

Some of you guys are on a strange neurotic tangent about this Topping and low impedance. Plenty of revered amps couldn't match this or wouldn't exceed it. We just didn't have tests of them like we do now. You didn't have the test Amir did on various loads with capacitive and inductive loads. Yes there are more powerful amps and such. However the fact you get less than max power into less than 2 ohms doesn't mean this amp wouldn't hook up to and play some pretty tough loads and you won't have any problem with it. Any perturbances are not going to be greater than lots of other amps some of you are using right now.

You want an amp that was not too great on tough loads. Try a Pass Aleph 3. Anything with low impedance, very much phase off of resistive and it would choke badly. It could sound quite nice on some speakers, but not very many. It lacks power being truly pure 30 wpc purely class A as it was a mosfet single ended amp.

 

[Cbdb2]

Some of you guys are on a strange neurotic tangent about this Topping and low impedance.

What got me going was the statement that using a speaker as a load for amp testing screwed up the measurements. Does this mean the AP was screwing up or the amp? If its the amp dont we want to know how much?

 

[gvl]

Is there a common use case that multiple inputs in a mono power amp serve?