Topping B200 Monoblock Amplifier Review

[Matt_Holland]

You guys going on about the huge failure of the heatsink design are the engineer equivalent of the loony cables sound different audiophile guys.

 

[BeeKay]

That's nice for your use then.
Mine could differ, greatly.

Edit: If you want to see what I mean, go to fosi mono thread.
There's people measuring temps from 35°C to 60°C , depending the use.

Point taken.
As an example I have experience with I would like to ask my trusted old Lindemann amp into the arena. Similar specs, 24yrs old, vertikal heat sink, on his initial set of caps (Phillips), internal PSU with a toroidal transformer. Class AB, and running significantly(!) warmer than the B200. Still works great and absolutely reliable.

As of now I have little to no concerns about the B200’s durability.

 

[boxerfan88]

You guys going on about the huge failure of the heatsink design are the engineer equivalent of the loony cables sound different audiophile guys.

Ha ha ha ... good one !

 

[Fletcher Munson]

OK dumb question. What class amplifier is this ?

 

[Burns]

OK dumb question. What class amplifier is this ?

AB

 

[Fletcher Munson]

AB

Thank you

 

[Sokel]

Point taken.
As an example I have experience with I would like to ask my trusted old Lindemann amp into the arena. Similar specs, 24yrs old, vertikal heat sink, on his initial set of caps (Phillips), internal PSU with a toroidal transformer. Class AB, and running significantly(!) warmer than the B200. Still works great and absolutely reliable.

As of now I have little to no concerns about the B200’s durability.

I see nice stuff in there and thoughtful design, Philips caps are amongst my favorites, I use them in all of my Salas PSUs.
I would prefer the heat sinks to be outside, but probably just a preference if they do the job.

 

[drmevo]

B200 has 3 balanced inputs for 3 different Preamps (I suppose)? How is amp deciding what signal to play if it receives signal on two or three inputs?

Seems this could be a decent way to achieve HT Bypass, assuming you have a sub that can accept multiple inputs like SVS or Rhythmik.

 

[Mulder]

If these amp have any serious design flaw I guess it will show rather soon, in a year or so. Long term durability may take a decade or so.

 

[KL....]

Oh wow, that's phenomenal performance, and it's class B (edit: this is misinformation; it is AB). I'd still take a Purifi amp over this simply because of efficiency

Yes, class AB, because class B transistors/fets all have crossover distortion when they turn off and turn on and it would be impossible to achieve those excellent noise figures. Perhaps they are using a new/special fet in the B200 which is possible, does anyone know? That is a lot of wattage that can be produced through those 2 fets, isn't it?

Does anybody know if GAN fets can be used in a class AB amp?

 

[misterdog]

You guys going on about the huge failure of the heatsink design are the engineer equivalent of the loony cables sound different audiophile guys.

After all this heatsink debate, I'm going to mount my B200's on some adapted cable lifters to aid with the thermal control....


Maybe put some fans behind them blowing cool air just to be safe.

Though as mine don't even become tepid it seems moot.

 

[Deleted member 72219]

Yes, class AB, because class B transistors/fets all have crossover distortion when they turn off and turn on and it would be impossible to achieve those excellent noise figures. Perhaps they are using a new/special fet in the B200 which is possible, does anyone know? That is a lot of wattage that can be produced through those 2 fets, isn't it?

Does anybody know if GAN fets can be used in a class AB amp?

Not impossible. B100 is Class-B. Performance is nearly comparable, except at half the power.

-Ed

 

[Deleted member 72219]

...Maybe put some fans behind them blowing cool air just to be safe...

V3 Monos all over again.

 

[KL....]

Not impossible. B100 is Class-B. Performance is nearly comparable, except at half the power.

-Ed

Thank you Ed, how about that. Must be a unique form of local FB being utilised and/or perhaps a new/special fet or just clever?.... sound reasonable?

 

[Deleted member 72219]

Thank you Ed, how about that. Must be a unique form of local FB being utilised and/or perhaps a new/special fet or just clever?.... sound reasonable?

People who know better than I have stated that it is some extremely clever utilization of stacked feedback.

-Ed

 

[board]

The amp has near zero, frequency independent output impedance. So it is as uncaring about the load you can get, subject to its max current and voltage.

As to using a speaker, the back EMF causes serious measurement errors. We went through this with headphones a while back.

I have a genuine question as someone who has been wondering about this for a while. I was considering opening a new topic, but then I saw your message.

I don't think all amplifiers sound different, but I don't think all amplifiers sound the same either.
Since I've eq'ed a lot songs to make them sound better (remastered them), I consider frequency response to be biggest culprit in how something sounds, beside volume level of course.

So, it has been my hypothesis that when two amplifiers sound different it is most often due to a different frequency response, probably due to the speaker load on the amplifier. Sometimes it could also be due to a different distortion profile.
Do you, Amir, or anyone else here, think that this hypothesis is correct?

And also, if this Topping amp doesn't change, or hardly changes, the frequency response no matter how difficult the speaker load, even the load from the biggest Wilson speakers, then it will sound completely neutral, whereas various other types of amplififers, more traditional ones you might say, will not sound completely neutral, as the speaker load will change the frequency response depending on what speaker load its being fed.
Would that also be correct?

Also this is purely anecdotal, but I compared a Nord Purifi amp with a Naim two-box set, and an Arcam SR-250, and matched the volume level to the best of my capabilities. The Nord Purifi I would imagine would be just as neutral as the Topping one, whereas I would imagine that the Naim and the Arcam changed the frequency response a bit due to the loudspeaker load, hence the differences I heard, which to me also sounded like a change in frequency response/EQ (if it wasn't placebo or volume level, of course).

 

[Lambda]

I invite you to perform an engineering analysis to show how the output impedance of an amplifier influence the mechanical motion

It changes the damping, but you seem to be missing the point.

I'm sure we can agree on the following things:

• The amplifier is (or should be) a voltage source. This is why its output voltage is measured to evaluate its performance.
• The speaker is voltage-driven. This is why a voltage source is used to evaluate its performance.

Now, the parts where we don’t seem to agree:

• If the amplifier's output voltage changes with a more realistic load, it’s not an "error" but rather a more realistic measurement of the amplifier's output voltage under real-world conditions.
• If we evaluate amplifiers by their output voltage (and not by "the mechanical motion of the speaker driver diaphragm"), we should take changes in this output due to load variations seriously.
• An amp that shows no significant change in output depending on load is usually a good thing.
• An amp that shows a significant change in output depending on load is a sign that something is wrong with the amp, not just a measurement error.
• An amp with high output impedance that shows a flat frequency response on its output with an ideal, purely resistive load is highly misleading since it would not be flat with a complex load.

 

[misterdog]

OK dumb question. What class amplifier is this ?

Top class, given the measured performance and my listening experience.

For reference I also have a Benchmark AHB2.

 

[Doodski]

I have a genuine question as someone who has been wondering about this for a while. I was considering opening a new topic, but then I saw your message.

I don't think all amplifiers sound different, but I don't think all amplifiers sound the same either.
Since I've eq'ed a lot songs to make them sound better (remastered them), I consider frequency response to be biggest culprit in how something sounds, beside volume level of course.

So, it has been my hypothesis that when two amplifiers sound different it is most often due to a different frequency response, probably due to the speaker load on the amplifier. Sometimes it could also be due to a different distortion profile.
Do you, Amir, or anyone else here, think that this hypothesis is correct?

And also, if this Topping amp doesn't change, or hardly changes, the frequency response no matter how difficult the speaker load, even the load from the biggest Wilson speakers, then it will sound completely neutral, whereas various other types of amplififers, more traditional ones you might say, will not sound completely neutral, as the speaker load will change the frequency response depending on what speaker load its being fed.
Would that also be correct?

Also this is purely anecdotal, but I compared a Nord Purifi amp with a Naim two-box set, and an Arcam SR-250, and matched the volume level to the best of my capabilities. The Nord Purifi I would imagine would be just as neutral as the Topping one, whereas I would imagine that the Naim and the Arcam changed the frequency response a bit due to the loudspeaker load, hence the differences I heard, which to me also sounded like a change in frequency response/EQ (if it wasn't placebo or volume level, of course).

The voltage divider created when frequency response variations occurs requires the amp to have a high output impedance in comparison to a good amp's output impedance. Good amps have very low output impedance and that is why they have flat frequency response.

 

[ldp82]

If these amp have any serious design flaw I guess it will show rather soon, in a year or so. Long term durability may take a decade or so.

I am waiting on my 3rd b200 to arrive. If I get 10 years out of them I will be happy $60 a year to run the system, not bad! Seeing how quickly things are changing I will probably want to upgrade by then anyways.