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The REAL Problem of March Audio's Sointuva WG (Review, Measurements and Reinforcements with Klippel device)

diddley

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Great investigative work! And with solution!!
Alan should have red ears/eyes and learn from this, but knowing Alan he will put the blame on the messenger.

I am saddened that Erin has been cancelled here, but there is understanding of Amir's position as well.
Turned out to be a catch 22 situation.He shot himself in the foot.
Maybe one day a clean plate for everyone?except for the insulters.
 

MAB

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6. Improvements

I sealed the tweeter parts.

View attachment 214831View attachment 214832View attachment 214833View attachment 214834View attachment 214835







Regarding insert nuts.
The insert nuts at the unit joint just fell out when pushed physically and thus caused leakage.

So I sealed it myself. (Picture below.)




View attachment 214836View attachment 214837







There are more issues I found during the improvement process.





View attachment 214838






Usual insert nuts have a tube at the end and seals a bit when it is pulled




View attachment 214839








But I found some insert nuts without those sealing tubes.


I cannot confirm whether or to what extent this contributed to leakage of enclosure but the inconsistent use of materials is enough to be criticized.

Another jaw dropping issue was that





View attachment 214840







Insert nuts should be installed like the picture above, but when I disassembled the other Sointuva WG piece which didn’t have an issue,



View attachment 214841






I found an unassembled insert nut.
A clear apology and follow up actions is required from the manufacturer.




Organizing the internal wiring.

View attachment 214842






The existing wiring was not fixed and might have caused a noise by vibration so...




View attachment 214843View attachment 214844






I organized it as above.
I no longer use t-nuts and machine screws for DIY projects. Whatever advantages are made up for by all the mitigations you need to do to make them work. And I have had to take apart so many speakers because I didn't properly harness the wires. This looks very similar to some of those fails I've had.

This is fantastic work. So informative. Appreciate your careful and comprehensive report!
 

SDC

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The post doesn't mention all the time spent.

But there are lot more mails between the original owner, another buyer, and Alan.
This began at April, much longer if including order-building-shipping.

It was not a simple weekend job exaggerated just to shame anybody.
 
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tmtomh

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Well said.

I would appreciate a short summary of the issues with this build as well.

Insufficient internal damping, inconsistent force applied to screws attaching the woofer to the enclosure, no sealant on binding posts. Is that right/all?

Good idea for a boiled-down list, and I think you've summarized it well. I would echo it and add as follows:

1. Insufficient internal damping: I would characterize this as a design opportunity (since as noted above this appears to be an industry-wide issue)
2. Screws inconsistently tightened: Major problem, easily addressed with improved QC
3. No sealant on binding posts: Manufacturing problem/oversight, absolutely needs to be corrected ASAP
4. Gap between tweeter and waveguide: Major problem, needs to be corrected with added sealant in manufacturing process
5. Use of some fasteners without locking "bulge" on the shaft: Seems to be a component-sourcing issue, needs to be corrected moving forward
 

Randy Bessinger

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I am not an expert here but I am the owner of the second version of the March Audio Sointuva. For the record, I bought the speakers from Alan and the only renumeration involved was him paying for shipping to Erin for testing. Erin had no vested interest in the speakers being good, bad, or indifferent. As it turns out, I was afraid of damage to the speakers in shipping so drove from Wichita KS to AL to pickup from Erin after he was done measuring. Any savings from shipping from Australia was nil.

i am fine with test and criticism of the speakers but I am a bit of a skeptic. When I see phrases like “jaw dropping” etc. the skeptic in me says is this science? Anyway, I am happy with the speakers as I am with my Perlistens and BMRs. They all have their strengths and weaknesses to my very old ears. The only complaints I have on the March speakers is the packaging for shipping could be better. The BMRs and Perlistens were packed extremely well,

Have a good day.

P.S. On my way to Erin’s, I stopped by and toured the Muscle Shoals Studio. Highly recommended for anyone who loves music.
 

Curvature

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Good idea for a boiled-down list, and I think you've summarized it well. I would echo it and add as follows:

1. Insufficient internal damping: I would characterize this as a design opportunity (since as noted above this appears to be an industry-wide issue)
2. Screws inconsistently tightened: Major problem, easily addressed with improved QC
3. No sealant on binding posts: Manufacturing problem/oversight, absolutely needs to be corrected ASAP
4. Gap between tweeter and waveguide: Major problem, needs to be corrected with added sealant in manufacturing process
5. Use of some fasteners without locking "bulge" on the shaft: Seems to be a component-sourcing issue, needs to be corrected moving forward
Thank you.

Perhaps this will prompt March Audio to address these problems and make a Sointuva Mk2 as a response to community feedback. Although I'm sure he would hesitate to recognize them officially since some customers would request refunds or fixes.
 

peniku8

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I no longer use t-nuts and machine screws for DIY projects. Whatever advantages are made up for by all the mitigations you need to do to make them work. And I have had to take apart so many speakers because I didn't properly harness the wires. This looks very similar to some of those fails I've had.

This is fantastic work. So informative. Appreciate your careful and comprehensive report!
Screwing directly into the wood works just fine, unless the cabinet is made from MDF. If you have enough space I can recommend hex nuts. I mount 12" and larger drivers with hex nuts and they're great.
 

FeddyLost

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Very nice post that reminds us about importancy of QC.
Especially when you are making expensive speakers from expensive components claiming about low distortion.
 

ROOSKIE

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Screwing directly into the wood works just fine, unless the cabinet is made from MDF.
Screwing into mdf with the proper screw designed for such material is no issue at.
If worried add a little wood glue to the pre drilled holes, let it dry and then install with a little glue on the screw tip.
I've had 0 issues with MDF.

Interesting investigation of the speaker.
All seem like easy fixes at the production level. Should be easy to iron out.

This is a nice speaker that just needs that last 2% to really shine it up.

As well all know that last 2% is the hardest part sometimes. It is the stuff you overlooked many times already and so need a 2nd resource to help, an "editor".

Very tough crowd here as always and that often includes myself.
 
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Billy Budapest

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I never knew what happened between Alan and the forum moderators to get him kicked off, but I hope he is able to view this thread as a guest so that he can impliment these fixes to his product.
 

dfuller

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I never knew what happened between Alan and the forum moderators to get him kicked off, but I hope he is able to view this thread as a guest so that he can impliment these fixes to his product.
I won't go too much into it, but he was extremely combative whenever anything bad (even tangentially) was mentioned about products he sells, and wouldn't let things go even when warned. Or at least that's what I remember, the mods can verify or correct.
 

Bombadil

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I never knew what happened between Alan and the forum moderators to get him kicked off, but I hope he is able to view this thread as a guest so that he can impliment these fixes to his product.
Agreed, it seems unfair to level serious criticisms of a person's work (both Alan and Erin) without giving them an opportunity to respond.
 

Katji

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[So far i remember,] there was no criticism of Erin's work.
 

Inner Space

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This is what happenes when some medium skill DIY/assembler thinks he is a serious manufacturer ...
I think this is the key takeaway. Manufacturing - superficially routine - is actually very difficult. In studios we would get visits from manufacturers, and sometimes in polite conversation we would ask, "When is the Mark Two version coming out?" The answer was often, "Man, 99% of our effort goes to make sure all the Mark Ones come out the same. The Mark Twos will have to wait." Consistent build and quality control ain't easy - certainly no job for undercapitalized amateurs.
 
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