Which happens to be exactly what I said. :-D
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The psychology of it all.
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Which happens to be exactly what I said. :-D
Yes it has been a thread, but finding it will be a lifetime of work!This dialog makes the top statement a negative value.
I've never been a fan of tests, especially those that are ABX/T/? and/or blind.
I also do not follow the results of such testing; even if under controlled environment w/golden-ears, who can keep their 'biases' in check!
Not that it will force me to replace any of my current A/V hardware... but I must ask:
Can you remember (and/or willing to share) the CliffsNotes version of that consensus?
Or provide me with your opinion, for which I promise not to insult you about!
Sure, it is the level of my computer skills which are well known to the ASR faithful. I am amazing in the area of turning them on or off. After that I need help. So, it doesn't apply to any "normal" technically savvy person. Well, I might be exaggerating my skills a wee bit.....LOL OMG, I was being taught online some basic (very basic) Discord stuff and I think others were amazed I didn't know how to zip around all of the social media sites. They think I'm a dinosaur. Extinction imminent!Can you remember (and/or willing to share) the CliffsNotes version of that consensus?
Or provide me with your opinion, for which I promise not to insult you about!
Sure, I agree and I was going to say those exact facts about you but you forgot to answer my Q:
Good Gosh Man! Only 60 posts in and you have cracked the code. The longer term members are satisfied in the knowledge that they are right no matter what. But, when it is the truth, what else can you say?
Post 62 was my answer. I think you forgot I posted that. My legendary computer skills blinded you to the answer. There has been a thread on it here but you would have to find it. That can be easy or a heavy lift. Depends on your savvy skills. I just pawn off that kind of work to an underling. What else do they have to do but satisfy my whims? Just keep this between us. Don't want my secrets to get out.Sure, I agree and I was going to say those exact facts about you but you forgot to answer my Q:
Lawyer-client privileged factoids. << The land-shark (=you)
should be advising your client (=me) to do zero of lifting.I am just glad that there are conscientious others, who are willing to do blind/AB testing and report their findings... no matter how jaundiced their results could be.
I'd rather spend that time listening to music while reading their musings... although I always keep a
I take subjectivist reports seriously, as in I don't believe they are lying to me. I am hesitant to spend time or money if I find out they are giving only sighted impressions. I'm not going to argue with them (too much), and I'm willing to have a listen myself if I get a chance without having to sink a bunch of money into it. I've listened to enough high end gear to know that a lot of what gets raved about is very subtle at best and relatively unimportant for my enjoyment. The kinds of improvements that interest me are those that aren't so subtle, the kind that a properly performed blind or double blind test will easily show are audible and preferred by most people on a wide variety of recordings.
As for effects that are audible but not measurable, I've not run into that yet, although I've seen REW get confused by distortion vs background noise, so a case like that could make one think that an audible effect is not measurable. It's being measured, just misinterpreted.
As for effects that are audible but not measurable, I've not run into that yet, although I've seen REW get confused by distortion vs background noise, so a case like that could make one think that an audible effect is not measurable. It's being measured, just misinterpreted.
Newman
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At first glance I thought you were saying you take them to be serious descriptions of what lies in the sound waves. But now I see you mean the writers believe what they are writing.
I think so too.But that implies they either don’t know about the Sighted Listening Effect, which makes them an earnest ignoramus, or they know about it but refuse to credit it, which makes them an inconvenient truth denialist. Both reasons I consider to be totally unacceptable if someone is making a living from such reports.
It is so rare that they are doing anything other than sighted impressions, that the only reasonable approach is to treat them as going sighted. A properly controlled listening test would certainly be mentioned in the report, given the effort involved.
One English rag is known for doing product comparison reports and casually mentioning “our blind panel” in the reports. They give no further information. At the time I was excited to read that, but became cynical when their reports included what I would call too-unlikely differences, eg soundstaging by cables. Now I just think they were extremely sloppy (poorly controlled) attempts. Like you, I doubt that they were blatantly lying.
Exactly.
How the heck did we get onto the topic of micro-tremors detection, while someone is telling lies?
Actually, we could all use AI lie detectors.
Yes, I should have put it the other way - If I know that blind testing was used I'm more likely to consider expending time and money to try the product, assuming it actually passed the blind tests, and a substantial number of people show a strong preference.
Newman
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Yes, agreed….but who is actually doing this? Properly controlled blind panel testing of commercial speakers in groups of 3 or more for the purpose of publishing a speaker comparison test? I don’t know of anyone doing that.
It’s just too rare to be useful. Plus, it only gives one a preference ranking for the speakers under test. It’s not a very fruitful way for us to go about gear shortlisting in practice, because of the lack of data.
That’s why Dr Floyd Toole and his associates dedicated half a career to finding a proxy method, whereby we can examine a set of objective measurements of a speaker and conclude, with very high confidence, that it would be preferred in a proper blind listening comparison to a speaker that measures less well. Looking at those measurements, the so-called Spinorama, is a window into a blind listening test in absentia. That’s why it’s an incredibly important piece of audio science.
And that’s why ASR is an doing incredibly important service for the audio community, by publishing Spinorama-style measurements of many speakers. They are proxy blind panel preference tests.
cheers
The proxy method is great and generally applies to my tastes. My experience in listening to speakers with a high preference rating is that I never hate them. For some reason I don't always love them. Comparing the Revel M16 to the Sony SSCS5 I would call the Revel better. I'll bet I'd choose it as better in a blind test. Maybe not. But in use in my home I find the Sony more pleasant even though it sounds a little rougher to me. It's something about it's overall presentation that I find more agreeable. In blind taste tests people prefer fruit juice that has some extra sweetener added. I agree that it's got a bit more pleasant punch on a quick comparison. Over time I end up going for the unsweetened apple sauce and juice. So, it's good to know these preferences are verified repeatedly but you still have to take the stuff home and try it for a while.
I doubt it.
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How do you know?
Don't think it is specific a matter of psychology only.
I got some months ago sort of tinitus. Didn't hear that clear any more specific imaging & staging. The fun of listening to high end audio was diminished considerably. I learnd that ear conditions could spoil a lot an because of that from an physical point of view people could hear different than me so that influence their perception an choices for instance using more or less EQ.
Luckly enough my Docter told me most of his patiënt will heal some soon or it takes some months. I got from my Docter Fluticason. For me it is now considerbly less such i almost don't hear it anymore.Took me 5 months to get my previous hearing more or less back including the imaging staging an fun.
I got some months ago sort of tinitus. Didn't hear that clear any more specific imaging & staging. The fun of listening to high end audio was diminished considerably. I learnd that ear conditions could spoil a lot an because of that from an physical point of view people could hear different than me so that influence their perception an choices for instance using more or less EQ.
Luckly enough my Docter told me most of his patiënt will heal some soon or it takes some months. I got from my Docter Fluticason. For me it is now considerbly less such i almost don't hear it anymore.Took me 5 months to get my previous hearing more or less back including the imaging staging an fun.
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No knowledge, just doubt.
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