The post in which Darko basically tells anyone who isn't a rich rube to ignore him and audiophilia in general

[Soniclife]

I would recommend a more entry level setup like this http://www.koetsuaudio.com/cartridges#/rosewoodsignature

They are more like works of art than functional objects, if I had more money than sense, and room for a second TT I'd have one, even though it's probably worse than my dynavector.

 

[Dmitri]

Maybe I should just jump on the bandwagon and then start making my own little cartridges so that I can sell them for $20,000 apiece. The cost of materials is obviously negligible, and once up and running I expect I could churn out several of these little boogers each day, doing most everything by hand with the help of a few simple jigs to hold things in place.

Actually, it’s probably a bit more complicated then that, but I like your chutzpah.
Cables on the other hand...have at it. 6 ft of some monoprice quad with tech flex and fancy looking gold plated connectors could easily net you a few hundred dollars/ euros or more. Just use terms like “liquid” and “airy” “and superior bass integration” in your marketing flier. Of course, a Darko review wouldn’t hurt either.
Just remember, you’d have too look at yourself in the mirror from time to time.

 

[mansr]

Just remember, you’d have too look at yourself in the mirror from time to time.

It just occurred to me, those cable vendors are all vampires.

 

[KaiserSoze]

Actually, it’s probably a bit more complicated then that, but I like your chutzpah.
Cables on the other hand...have at it. 6 ft of some monoprice quad with tech flex and fancy looking gold plated connectors could easily net you a few hundred dollars/ euros or more. Just use terms like “liquid” and “airy” “and superior bass integration” in your marketing flier. Of course, a Darko review wouldn’t hurt either.
Just remember, you’d have too look at yourself in the mirror from time to time.

No doubt it is very complicated from both the engineering standpoint and the manufacturing standpoint. I actually did a little bit of reading last night to satisfy my curiosity. Before I started to read, I already was wondering whether anyone had ever made or tried to make cartridges using the same principles that apply to condenser microphones, except of course with the non-ridged diaphragm manipulated mechanically rather than by air pressure. So I did some searches for specifically that, and it turns out that there have been some forays into that approach, most notably (but not first) by Stax, starting in 1950, and eventually producing an electret phono pickup in the mid-70s. It was taken off the market just two years later, but there isn't enough information to discern the reason. Maybe it just didn't catch on the way they hoped. Some ambitious person could probably pick up right where Stax left off and make a killing building electret phono pickups.

 

[Robin L]

No doubt it is very complicated from both the engineering standpoint and the manufacturing standpoint. I actually did a little bit of reading last night to satisfy my curiosity. Before I started to read, I already was wondering whether anyone had ever made or tried to make cartridges using the same principles that apply to condenser microphones, except of course with the non-ridged diaphragm manipulated mechanically rather than by air pressure. So I did some searches for specifically that, and it turns out that there have been some forays into that approach, most notably (but not first) by Stax, starting in 1950, and eventually producing an electret phono pickup in the mid-70s. It was taken off the market just two years later, but there isn't enough information to discern the reason. Maybe it just didn't catch on the way they hoped. Some ambitious person could probably pick up right where Stax left off and make a killing building electret phono pickups.

I sincerely doubt anyone is going to make a killing with phono pickups. Didya notice that Shure opted out of that business a couple of years ago? LPs might be experiencing a revival compared to where they were a decade ago, but LPs will never again be the kind of mass market item found in grocery stores. Our family got "Revolver" when it came out in a Albertsons, that ought to tell you something right there.

 

[win]

They are more like works of art than functional objects

Until you remember that the picture is zoomed in 10x and in real life it's the size of a nickel

 

[KaiserSoze]

I sincerely doubt anyone is going to make a killing with phono pickups. Didya notice that Shure opted out of that business a couple of years ago? LPs might be experiencing a revival compared to where they were a decade ago, but LPs will never again be the kind of mass market item found in grocery stores. Our family got "Revolver" when it came out in a Albertsons, that ought to tell you something right there.

If you could get Fremer to rave about your $10,000 electret phono cartridge, you might do pretty well. I don't have any idea how many audiophiles there are who like to spend their trust funds on turntables, tone arms and cartridges, but I keep seeing ads for very expensive turntables, tone arms and cartridges, which suggests to me that there is a fair amount of money being made in the vinyl realm. How much it is exactly, I've no idea. I expect that Fremer is intimately familiar with the numbers.

 

[Soniclife]

Until you remember that the picture is zoomed in 10x and in real life it's the size of a nickel

Same size or a little bigger than my existing cart, which looks nice to me when I use it.

 

[mhardy6647]

It just occurred to me, those cable vendors are all vampires.

Well... at least one is, I s'pose...
https://www.vampirewire.com/

 

[sjeesjie]

Man this thread really makes my day. I love ASR

 

[board]

Nah. That's the shibboleth audiophiles often mouth, but it's clearly not true. If it were, we wouldn't have forums like this and many others (and magazines) devoting so much time and discussion to the gear. The gear aspect to guys, in this hobby and elsewhere, is like shiny dangling things to a cat. We can admit it.

Agreed!

 

[Phorize]

As an amateur jazz musician, that's my issue.

They sound like amateurs.

As jazz music, it's completely mediocre.

At that level of musicianship, I can just go play live with my buddies and have more fun playing than listening.

For recorded music, I like to listen to musicians that are aspirational and inspirational. Basically, people who are better than the people I recreationally gig with.

I can give it props for recording engineering, though.

Just checked this out on qobuz following this discussion, and looked at the Naxos site. Thank goodness for streaming, I would have been devastated if I payed £36 for it. Who cares if it’s well recorded-it’s a pale imitation of jazz. I need some mind bleach, I can’t get that effete vibraphone out of my head

 

[Phorize]

Honestly when I think of the number of incredible jazz musicians who we’ve never heard of and sure as hell would never get recorded it makes me sick.

 

[Phorize]

I might buy one just to burn it.

 

[Katji]

If you could get Fremer to rave about your $10,000 electret phono cartridge, you might do pretty well. I don't have any idea how many audiophiles there are who like to spend their trust funds on turntables, tone arms and cartridges, but I keep seeing ads for very expensive turntables, tone arms and cartridges, which suggests to me that there is a fair amount of money being made in the vinyl realm. How much it is exactly, I've no idea. I expect that Fremer is intimately familiar with the numbers.

I suppose there were very expensive turntables, tone arms, cartridges in the 1970s, but not so extremely expensive and not so much of it. afaik, anyway, because I was looking at music/magazines much more than I looked at hi-fi magazines. Consumerism has developed in that way too - at the rich level.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I suppose there were very expensive turntables, tone arms, cartridges in the 1970s, but not so extremely expensive and not so much of it. afaik, anyway, because I was looking at music/magazines much more than I looked at hi-fi magazines. Consumerism has developed in that way too - at the rich level.

Over here probably just the top model Thorens and Garrard decks. The Garrard 401 was about £72 when I worked there and my SME 3009 mk2 Improved was £24 iirc. Using my benchmark of money's loss of value, which is an engineer's starting salary, money has lost about 95% of its value since then, so a UK state of the art turntable and arm cost about £1920 in today's money, so expensive but nowhere close to the so many style-mor-important-than-substance products today.

 

[Robin L]

Over here probably just the top model Thorens and Garrard decks. The Garrard 401 was about £72 when I worked there and my SME 3009 mk2 Improved was £24 iirc. Using my benchmark of money's loss of value, which is an engineer's starting salary, money has lost about 95% of its value since then, so a UK state of the art turntable and arm cost about £1920 in today's money, so expensive but nowhere close to the so many style-mor-important-than-substance products today.

Thorens 'tables were pretty swank in the 1970s. I want to see something like Stereophile's "Recommended Components" for 1975, back when they would review gear like the larger Advents or the Philips 'tables, when Absolute Sound was recommending a $20 Grado cartridge.

 

[mhardy6647]

Thorens 'tables were pretty swank in the 1970s.

They were pretty swank in the 1950s, as well... and their music boxes of the late 19th Century (and beyond) were (more or less) amazing.

 

[StefaanE]

I suppose there were very expensive turntables, tone arms, cartridges in the 1970s, but not so extremely expensive and not so much of it. afaik, anyway, because I was looking at music/magazines much more than I looked at hi-fi magazines. Consumerism has developed in that way too - at the rich level.

As far as I remember from visiting HiFi stores in the 1970ies, there were very expensive turntables such as the B&O Beogram tangential which were the preserve of the well-off. I was intrigued by the Garrard Z-100 but had to return it because even after lots of warranty work, it steadfastly refused to play the last 2 cm of many records, so I settled for a Lenco L-78 with a Shure M97 (IIRC). These devices were not cheap, but within reach of a student working during the holidays making about $500.
$500 would buy a lot of kit, and for $2500 one could get a top-of-the-line rack from Philips, which even with inflation that is no match for the ridiculous sums boutique HiFi manufacturers now charge.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Thorens 'tables were pretty swank in the 1970s.

I gave my Thorens TD125 with Mission 774 arm to my daughter after a certain amount of arm twisting. She has it at her house but doesn't use it any more. A shame, it is one of the better turntables ever made IMO.